Big news!!! [:0][:0][:0] My parent are getting a new shed for the lawn and garden care and they said that I could have the old 8 x 12 shed. The shed is big enough to have a 8 x 12 x 8 layout in the shape of a “C”. I can also put a 4x8 layout in the middel of the shed. WHAT A DEAL!!! [:)][:)][:)]
Feel free to help me with tips and [?]'s
THANK YOU MOMMY AND DADDY
YIPEEEE [:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]
Alright! Just remember to leave rail gaps for expansion and contraction unless your shed is heated / air conditioned. The Texas climate can be brutal on trackwork. Also you might want to put a coat of flat varnish on all your benchwork to minimize the effects of humidy changes.
I’ve never tried a layout in an outdoor shed, maybe others could lend some experience here???
I will second your advise on Texas weather. In 5 years on different model rail road forums, the guys in Texas seem to have the biggest weather challenge affecting layout integrity.
How does the weather efect modeling oudoors?
Byran,
Go to the shed very early in the morning one day. LOL … force yourself out of bed. Then go to the shed around 2:00 in the afternoon and tell me what you find in terms of heat. Also humidity can be an issue.
Layouts expand and contract in extreme heat and humidity. Tracks will tighen up and warp, or open up and be a problem. The heat is more a problem than the cold.
Byron,
Go for your dream, just ask lots of questions of guys who live in Texas what they do. Due to the larger forum participants at Atlas, I know there are a number of guys there, so chose your appropriate scale and ask how weather can affect your layout, and mention where you plan to put your layout. Post it in the Atlas forum.
How can I keep the problem from happing?
Maybe getting this shed is a bad idea.
Talk to guys who have their layouts in a shed to see what they did. I didn’t express myself very well in the last response to your. There are move guys from Texas at the Atlas forum. Post your question in the HO and N forum as it will get a wider audiance. Don’t panic, but don’t take your shed for granted either.
Now wait 5 months and go out to the shed again early in the morning. There may be frost on the rails. A small electric heater set to run all the time might be a good idea to keep the temperature at least above freezing. Frozen condensation tears up prototype roads, you will experience first hand some of the real prototype problems that are usually only experienced by garden railroaders. But at least you don’t have to worry about rattlesnakes in your tunnels. Or maybe you do - is the shed snakeproof? Also spiderwebs, bugs, birds, squirrels, etc.
In summer the humidity of the daytime condenses at night, we call it ‘dew’. This can collect on your railroad and may cause rust, corrosion. You might want to bring all your rolling stock indoors when not actually running them. And maybe wipe the rails with Wahl oil once in a while to repel moisture.
Don’t let this discourage you, though. Many of us old farts would love to have the space you have. And when you have become an expert in the art of outdoor small scale garden shed railroading, you can write a book.
The shed has a window and if I leave it open rain can’t get in but cooler air can. Does that make a difference?
Here’s a link to Atlas, I’ll tell you what.
I’ll start a thread there for you, you just have to come over and read it.
Lets see, I’ll call it “Layout in a Shed - Help”
Since you are in HO I will post it there, in the Atlas HO forum:
http://forum.atlasrr.com/default.asp
Sometimes if I have something challenging me I will post my question to a number of different forums. I am working a problem that I was concerned about, can more than one engines be in a reversing loop and work. I have a giant reversing loop with lots of stuff happening in it. So, I posted my question to the Digitrax site and to the Atas DCC forum. Having lots of responses generally can give you some options, or help clarify the issue for me.
So I have start the “shed” thread for your at Atlas.
Before you do anything in there, if its a metal shed I would seal all the little gaps and openings those things are notorious for, frame the inside walls and ceiling of it with 1x 3 strip lumber so that you have a 3" space against the walls and ceilings,stuff as much R-11 Batt insul or rigid foam insulating panels as I can get into the 3 space and cover it with wood veneer paneling, ya’ know the kind people fini***hier basements with. If yo can insulate the doors the better, the install a small A/C unit or a good fan. otherwise you will be smoking hot (and might actually melt plastic) in the summer and spitting ice cubes in winter. Texas aint that far off from Southern California temperature wise. Its a lot of work but 1x’s are cheap and Batt insulation is cheap and the veneer panels are cheap and you wont need that much to finish a 8x12 shed. I’m in a garage and I will be installing an A/C unit there cause it get mighty hot even with a fan, a metal shed? ever seen “Cool Hand Luke”?
Here is a response from the Atlas forum; basically it echoes the above:
Well, in Texas, he’s got to have an air conditioner in there. Just to give an example to those not familiar with the weather here – It was 111 degrees today in Dallas. Inside a sealed shed it would be over 150 degrees. And it will likely get in the teens in winter, so a heater is necessary too.
Building a layout in those kind of conditions in an uninsulated room will certainly not be easy. But I know I’d have given it a shot if my parents had gave me a shed at that age.
You’ll definently need to make the space liveable before any real layout work can begin. If the shed has a window, that’s perfect for an airconditioner. If it doesn’t, he’ll have to cut a hole in the wall of the shed and likely brace it a little, as a shed’s walls really aren’t very load-bearing.
An small air conditioner can probably be had for $100 at a garage sale. A heater, maybe $50, and not nearly as crucial as the A/C.
Not trying to be negative, having a shed would be great. Just being realistic, as it’s not only important for track and layout to have good temperatures, but it’s necessary to really enjoy your hobby. No one wants to bake, literally, when working on their trains
Bryan: Seems like a whole lot of rain on your parade [:(] I’m sorry that there’s been so much to dampen your enthusiasm, and the thrill of getting the shed. Also, the remedies suggested for the very real difficulties you will face in your climate don’t sound very cheep for a young teen budget.
How about this:-
If you design your layout as modules these could be moved out of the shed if some of these disasters strike.
If you build just one module to begin with you can test the shed to see just which of the many scenarios outlined in this thread actually happen. Then you can see what is easier, a major building fix, or a removable modular set up that can escape the worst of your seasons.
Follow Rick’s thread in the Atlas Forum, that should give you lot’s more information. (Thanks Rick for doing that BTW)
Just some thoughts, and I hope this whole thing hasn’t got you down. [:D]
I whent in the shed just recently wasn’t as hot as I expected. There is a window and it was partly opened.with opened at full it would be alot cooler.
The shed is waterprof.
I live in Lampasas Texas 60 miles from Austin and 70 miles from Waco.
Rick. I had a little trouble with the registation at Atlasrr.com. I will have to contact you through this fourm.
Click on my name, at the side “rsn48” and it will bring up my profile. In the profile you will see a way to send email. Send me an email. My email address is can_rsn_48@hotmail.com I decided to give it to you here as the hotmail address I use is public through many forums.
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Originally posted by bryan9664
The shed has a window and if I leave it open rain can’t get in but cooler air can. Does that make a difference?
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You bet! The sun on the shed walls will turn the inside into an oven if there is no ventilation. Any ventilation will work wonders, but you might want to cut another window on the opposite wall for a cross breeze. (Be able to close or cover the window openings to retain heat in the winter). Maybe a small, cheap exhaust fan too - in a small volume, it doesn’t take a whole lot of airflow to keep things cooler. Also if you paint the outside walls of the shed white, much of the sun heat will be reflected. And styrofoam insulation on the inside of the roof and walls will really help both summer and winter.
You are going where few have dared to go before. This is one of the things that can make this hobby so exciting - inventing new techniques to solve the practical problems that plague us. Just remember to gap your rails often with UNsoldered rail joiners (use additional power feeds to the tracks between unsoldered joints so electric flow is not dependent on the rail joiners). If you lay track in the hot weather, no problem - come winter you will see how much rail contraction there is and how big the gaps can get. It would help others if you kept records - rail gap vs temperature. Then anyone in future trying this will know how much gap to leave per foot of track if laying it in cooler weather.
As a prelayout experiment try installing a section of gapped track on a piece of wood. Make it in the sun on a hot day with the rail ends touching, or heated in your kitchen oven set to 120F (use an oven thermometer). Tighten the free rail ends down with screws so they can’t shift. Then stick it in your fridge or deep freeze (with a thermometer) overnight and measure the resulting gap. Tests like this can help you anticipate what the rail contraction in the cold will be for various temperatur
What about a fan for when I’m in the shead?
Yup! A pitcher of ice water and wearing a cotton shirt soaked with a garden hose helps big time too. Keep it wet and YOU won’t dehydrate.
My switching layout lives in an outbuilding on my grandmother’s farm… up here in PA. Even though we don’t have the extremes that TX does, it still gets pretty hot in there. In the summer, I open up the outside upper window, and turn on the fans. In winter, I build a fire in the fireplace downstairs. (The building is two stories). Then, I turn on the space heater upstairs. Believe it or not, it doesn’t get too bad. I also don’t leave my engines in there…they live in the house when not running. If I don’t, the cold/moisture will ruin the motors.
Rick I just went in the shed and it seems it has good air flow and curcilation.
I will return to the shed in 3 hours to update this fourm.
I will keep you posted