I will soon start to rip plywood and build my benchwork with it instead of warping lumber. It seems that Birch plywood is often used for this. Is that correct?
Please show me some pictures of your (ripped plywood) benchwork.
Birch is really nice study wood, probably second to oak but it is very pricey. If you are worried about warping why not Go with MDF plywood. It could be cut and screwed just like wood but doesnt have the same warping properties that wood has. MDF stands for medium density fiber. It is basically saw dust and glue and is very strong. Cuts come out like a sanded wood edge right off the saw blade so there is no sanding involved. You could find mdf at lowes or home depot and is alot cheaper than birch. Birch goes for 47 dollars and mdf for 22. I work at lowes in the lumber dept so I am telling you this from experience.
If you use MDF, you should really wear a mask, and be in a well insulated envirionment while working with it (cutting, sanding, routing, etc).
I believe you meant ventilated and not insulated. That is very true as the particles of saw dust will be very fine, a mask will do the job or just cut outside.
Yes, thanks for the correction! Guess I’m still thinking about heating oil for this winter…
I would have liked to use birch plywood for the top of my layout but as has been stated already it’s fairly expensive, so I used pine and have no regrets. The pine cost me $46 in total while the birch would have cost me almost $100. A word of warning on the MDF. Don’t get it wet. The glue in it is water-base. The part that got wet will swell and come apart.
I use 3/4" plywood made from pine. it’s not as pricey as birch and is thick enough that warping is not an issue. I keep my layout in a temperature controlled room (an air conditioned room set at 74º year round) I use pine 1" x 4"s for the benchwork legs and 1/2" x 3/4" for bracing. My benchwork is built in “L girder” fashion. here is my website with pictures and explanations on benchwork www.webshots.com/user/bayouman1 The first dozen or so pictures in “trains1” shows how i built my benchwork. Please feel free to check it out. There are a lot of nice tidbits throughout the site…chuck
If you are worried about MDF getting wet and blowing up, just paint it and once the mdf is sealed swelling is no longer an issue. I always recommend mdf when a customer is building a shelf, table, or furniture of sorts. If warping is a concern you can’t go wrong with MDF.
Folks:
I use CDX plywood on salvaged 1x3’s. Who cares what it looks like under the plaster, anyway? Nobody seems to complain that their nice lawn sits on grubby old dirt. The glue is exterior grade, so dampness is a non-problem.
I agree with that. CDX grade plywood is fine if you are screwing down an entire sheet of plywood to something so it holds it’s shape but if you wanted to rip it up I don’t think cdx is the best choice, you need something that won’t warp as easy if not fatsened well.
Birch plywood is great. I don’t have any photos handy, but I used ripped ply in place of 1x3s and 1x2s on my current layout–it was much easier.
I would not want to deal with MDF if I were ripping enough of it to create benchwork in place of dimensional lumber. Also, i don’t know how well it would stand up to being used in that way.
n1333:
I just don’t see how CDX plywood of a given thickness will warp appreciably more or any less than birch plywood of a given thickness. If it’s too thin, use something thicker. If it’s not fastened properly, well, fix it.
“Doctor! It hurts when I do this!”
“Well, don’t do that!”
As far as I know, the “birch” in birch plywood is only used for the surface veneer(s): the interior laminations are the same as most other plywoods, so you’re paying the big bucks solely for the appearance. If you’re making your layout as a piece of furniture, to be seen in a room also used for other purposes, birch (or oak, chestnut, teak, etc.) veneered plywoods could be used. For structural purposes, though, it’s no better than regular veneer-core plywood.
As for MDF, it may stand up structurally when used in vertical applications, but will sag under its own weight when used horizontally. It holds both nails and screws poorly, is susceptible to moisture, and glued joints, under stress, will fracture within the material itself, below the penetration of the glue used. I wouldn’t use the stuff, even as free firewood. [swg]
I used 5/8" spruce flooring plywood for much of my subroadbed (I “happened” to have a few sheets “left-over” after building my house [:-^] ) and found it to be plenty strong enough, used either in sheet form or cut out in strips and curves. The benchwork is open grid made from select or #1 grade pine 1"x2"and 1"x4", and that’s supported on legs made from more “left-overs” - mostly 2"x4"s. I also added shelving (3/8" sheathing grade plywood, on 2"x4" framing, 16" o/c) beneath most of the layout for storage purposes. Lots of room for tools, household items, trains, toys, and general household junk.
[IMG]http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/doctorwayne/Layout%20room%20tour/Layoutroomphotos029.jpg[/I
[quote user=“doctorwayne”]
As far as I know, the “birch” in birch plywood is only used for the surface veneer(s): the interior laminations are the same as most other plywoods, so you’re paying the big bucks solely for the appearance. If you’re making your layout as a piece of furniture, to be seen in a room also used for other purposes, birch (or oak, chestnut, teak, etc.) veneered plywoods could be used. For structural purposes, though, it’s no better than regular veneer-core plywood.
As for MDF, it may stand up structurally when used in vertical applications, but will sag under its own weight when used horizontally. It holds both nails and screws poorly, is susceptible to moisture, and glued joints, under stress, will fracture within the material itself, below the penetration of the glue used. I wouldn’t use the stuff, even as free firewood. [swg]
I used 5/8" spruce flooring plywood for much of my subroadbed (I “happened” to have a few sheets “left-over” after building my house [:-^] ) and found it to be plenty strong enough, used either in sheet form or cut out in strips and curves. The benchwork is open grid made from select or #1 grade pine 1"x2"and 1"x4", and that’s supported on legs made from more “left-overs” - mostly 2"x4"s. I also added shelving (3/8" sheathing grade plywood, on 2"x4" framing, 16" o/c) beneath most of the layout for storage purposes. Lots of room for tools, household items, trains, toys, and general household junk.
[IMG]http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/doctorwayne/Layout%20room%20tour/
MDF is the stuff commonly used to make inexpensive furniture and cabinetry out of these days (it’s also used to make decent furniture and cabinetry affordable). As others mentioned, it’s basically glue and sawdust, doesn’t hold screws or nails well, is easily damaged if accidentally hit on a corner or edge, is easily destroyed if it gets wet, and WILL eventually sag under load (including its own weight) if laid flat. I wouldn’t use it for benchwork at all - too many drawbacks. I have to agree with the “wouldn’t take it as free firewood” comment earlier.
The only good use I can think of for it is in a non-load bearing application as a drawer front or something similar. I’d just use regular plywood for my benchwork.
This comment is true if you were gonna just lay the mdf on top of a support on each end but hopefully you will have joists to create the structure of your bench work. In the case that you build your bench work correcty you will not have this problem. Even in the case of using oak if there is nothing supporting it in the middle it will eventually sag.
Regarding plywood, I think that the two things you need to be looking at is the plywood grade and the number of laminations. I’m not expert on the grading, but if I remember correctly the cheaper grades are allowed to have more voids/defects in the laminations that make up the thickness of the plywood. What I think this means is that if you cut across a piece of “furniture grade” plywood and then look at the cut edge, you will be less likely to see a void. Possibly there is aplywood expert out there that can confirm this.
The other thing to look at is the number of laminations for a given thickness. You can see these by looking at the edge of the plywood piece. The cheaper grades will have fewer laminations.
I agree that the “birch” business applies to the thin surface layers.
And I also agree 200% with the MDF is not even good for free firewood comment.
“MDF” sounds a lot cooler than when you call it what I’ve always known it as: particle board
HEY GUYS - YOU’RE NOT PAYING ATTENTION TO THE ORIGINAL POST!!! Electrolove is from Sweden, not the USA!! What is “normal” and available here is not the same in Sweden!!
MDF is not worth considering for benchwork here, and possibly not available in Sweden. As mentioned, it is prone to swelling, will not hold a screw well, and has poor structural strength.
CDX is not comparable to birch ply. CDX has fewer plys than birch - birch is generally a cabinet grade material where CDX is construction grade for sheathing or sub-floor use.
Fir ply is common in the US, but not in Europe. Birch ply is much more common in Europe, as are other hardwood plywoods.
Go ahead and use the birch Electrolove, you wont be sorry!![:)]
MR:
MDF has finer grain than particle board, which in turn is finer than OSB or flakeboard. It’s made of individual fibers, as the name implies, and the glue used is IIRC a waterproof resin. Of course, the fibers themselves might still absorb water and cause swelling of panels and forehead veins.
The Brits seem to use it a lot for model railroad “tablework”. I tried it for a shelf switcher, and it’s actually decent stuff to work with; saws easily and takes nails about like plywood, maybe a little easier. Some experimentation might be good.