Hello
I have one of this great BLI cab forwards. BLI inform that it is “Seuthe smoke ready”.
Have any done this? Is the smoke good looking?
What is the Seuthe part number that fit right in?
Thanks for any help on this.
Tommy Andersson
member of JMJK http://jmjk.nu
I haven’t done that, and advise against it. Smoke units just cause the rails to collect more forign material, messing up electrical contact. Plus smoke units in HO don’t produce the prototype’s exaust look.
Swede,
I ran Marklin HO for years with Seuthe smoke units. I have to agree with aggro, lots of guck on the rails and not very realistic. More like a smoldering cigarette, than loco exhaust. The little kids loved the smoke …
Guy
Okey, you convince me. No smoke.
Maybe it also get in to your lung and make you sick,[}:)] like cigarette smoke.
I see that BLI now is coming with a ac with “fan smoke”.
Is this making “good” smoke?
Yes, I heard about the new Cab Forwards that will have fan driven smoke units. It shouldn’t be any different, except the smoke will come out of the smoke stack faster because it’s being pushed out by the fan.
Check this out on the Walthers site:
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/227-29601
It’s a track cleaner that doubles as a smoke fluid. It is also said to improve conductivity. Will this work in the Seuthe units? Has anyone tried it? If it does indeed work, I don’t think any of the issues mentioned here would be issues at all (but only when using this particular fluid. ) I used to be into tinplate (American Flyer and Lionel) and those steamers could really produce the smoke. I never had the problems you guys had, but those were also much larger scales and AC powered, so maybe ithat’s why. The American Flyer and Lionel smoke units had pistons to pu***he smoke out of the stack and those pistons were synced to the drivers, so the puffing smoke was really quite realistic. I could see how the Seuthe units would look more like a cigarette and unrealistic. Perhaps the “fan-driven” feature will help.
One last question that I had been meaning to ask in a post of my own, but this thread will work as well… I just purchased one of the new BLI AC-5’s with smoke. I didn’t buy it for the smoke, but rather because I wanted a BLI AC-5. I won’t receive it for awhile yet (coming from HobbiesUSA in Virginia), but I was wondering if there is a switch to turn of the smoke and fan? The reason I ask, was that in the old tinplate smoke units if you let it run dry, the heater elements would burn out. Also, you could get tired of the smoke and would like to have turned it off at times. Perhaps the Seuthe units don’t burn out in dry mode, so if you don’t want smoke just don’t add fluid after it’'s run dry / all burned off? I’d like to know if that’s the case. Thanks for any answers.
Greg
According to O Gauge Railroading Magazine, February 2004(Run 199), Crest smoke fluid should be used in heater-type smoke generators, and not in seuthe units.
Seuthe units rely on capillary action to draw smoke fluid up into the element, and using a fluid too thick can cause them to clog. If the unit clogs, no smoke reaches the element, and it overheats and burns out. For this reason, you should use only LGB or Seuthe smoke fluid in a seuthe engine.
I wonder how such smoke will affect those with respiratory problems? I belong to a club whose members are mostly HO scale modular operators but we do have a few who run Lionel O scale trains. At our annual shows in a large school gym the smoke from their trains bothers some of our members who have to he at the show all day. It does get pretty strong in this large venue.
If smoke emitting HO steam engines were operated on home layouts in much smaller rooms, I wonder how much the smell of the smoke would drift around the house, possibly bothering others?
I can’t see it as being a very good idea.
Bob Boudreau
BLI is expected to offer the fan driven smoke unit as an accessory in the next few weeks. Not suppose to have burn out problems and look realistic (I’ll wait until I see a report in the forum).
Not sure if it can be turned on and off.
REX
On the Garden Railways Magazine forum a few months ago there was a discussion about smoke fluid and what could be used as a cheap substitute. A chemist allegedly analyzed various brands of smoke fluid and determined that they are nothing more than mineral oil, which can be purchased at any drug store in quart bottles for much less than the price of smoke fluid. Several modelers tried it and reported no difference in the appearance or amount of smoke produced in locomotives that use a heating element, such as Bachmann. No mention was made of Seuthe smoke units, so whether mineral oil would work in them is unknown. I have used mineral oil in a large smoke generator with a fan that is sold by Micro-Mark for a large smokestack or building fire, and can tell no difference between it and smoke fluid, except that mineral oil doesn’t smell as bad.
In one of the interviews with Maury Romer, who was the product engineer for Gilbert / American Flyer back in the 40’s and 50’s (when American Flyer introduced their smoke units), he mentioned that they had their smoke fluid formulated by an outside supplier (I believe it was chemical company) before they first offered the smoking locomotives. Gilbert then just purchased the fluid from this same outside supplier, packaged it, and resold it for use in their locos. Well, one day they got a call from a frantic mother, whose son had just swallowed a bunch of the fluid. Not knowing what was in the fluid or if it was toxic, they placed an urgent call to their supplier to find out what to do. The person they ultimately got a hold of (I believe the head chemist) just laughed and told them to tell the mother that she had nothing to fear. It was just pure mineral oil, and might even do the child some good. Romer said that once they heard that, they stopped buying it at an inflated price from that supplier and started buying it cheaper on the open market in 55 gallon drums. I know you can also put light oil in their smoke units and it burns/smokes well too.
An employee (his name escapes me) at the Lionel Corporation, on the side developed the formula for their smoke pills in the late 40’s, but never patented it so he could keep it a secret. Shortly thereafter, and after reaching mutually agreeable terms, he quit Lionel and went into business for himself as their sole supplier of those smoke tablets. They sold millions of those tablets, so he did alright for himself (not necessarily enough to become filthy rich, but more than enough to support his family). That anecdote is in either the Ron Hollander book or the Tuohy/McComas series of books on Lionel. Enjoy the hobby!
Remember …where there’s smoke, there’s Flyer!
Greg
I would highly suggest purchasing a copy of O Gauge Railroading Magazine Run 199(February 2004) for an explanation of why you should not use lamp oil or commercial mineral oil in your smoke units. Their website is www.ogaugerr.com . The gist of it is that commercial smoke fluids are a specific viscosity of mineral oil intended to work with smoke units, while mineral oil and lamp oil aren’t always a specific viscosity and can gum up your smoke unit, or, even worse, catch on fire.
My personal favorite smoke material is the old Lionel smoke pellet. These smell good, were easy to dispense in precise amounts, and didn’t drip oil all over your track and on the top of the engine. Too bad that they don’t make smoke units that can use them anymore, but at least I’ve got two fully functional postwar steam engines, plenty of smoke pellets, and a source for replacement heater elements.
Greg,
Just saw your post, I guess that you snuck in while I was typing my last response.
I’ve read several places that you can put 3-in-1 oil in your Flyer engines, although I would never do it, as I can hardly stand to work with it even in it unvaporized form. My AF engines have always gotten R.F. Giardina Co. reproduction American Flyer fluid, or Cedar Scented Super Smoke.
The meta-terphenyl smoke pellet was manufactured by Lionel designer Mario Mazzone, and I believe that Joseph Bonano(or was it Frank Petite?) that designed the smoke unit to use them.
I’m looking for a source of the old Lionel smoke pellets and replacement heater elements. Thanks for any help on this.
I have a BLI Cabfoward with a smoke unit, have no idea what kind, all though it is very new. It does have a switch so you can turen the unit on or off. Personally, UI think it look pretty good. If it blkew any more somoke it will fill up my garage. I turn it on for special runningins.
… of course I had to be a jackass and overfill it… anyone know what to do if you do that? My guess is by only a couple of drops? Doest heat up and work (cabnhear the fan and feel heat. Can smell it. I am guessing it just gettinghot enough do to the fact there is too much oil. Should I just keep running it? (it is on DCC so it gets plenty of power) Thanks for any input