I have become fascinated byt the BLI California Zephyr Passenger Cars, But I can’t fint the engine that BLI produced to pull them? Are they out? Wich was it and what would you recomend otherwise.
Thanks for your time, Magnus
P.s Anyone who got some of them who like to share there experiences with them?
The CZ was a joint effort by the CB&Q, the D&RGW, and the Western Pacific. BLI produced F units appropriate for each road involved, as each line’s locos were changed out when it was handed off to the next road. They came in sound or non-sound flavors.
I’m a Rio Grande guy, so I only use D&RGW Fs to pull mine. I actually bought appropriate Athearn Genesis F units (in both single and four stripe paint schemes) for my CZ power. I haven’t seen the BLI units in person, but others have critiqued the way the numberboards are rendered on the BLI units, among other minor issues.
The Genesis Rio Grande units sell out quickly, so locating them will take some looking or a turn to the used or auction markets. I’m unsure about the BLI units’ availability. Perhaps someone else can help with that.
I did the same thing as Mike did–bought Genesis F-3’s in Rio Grande 4-stripe for my CZ. I was thinking about getting the Rio Grande PA’s from BLI, but they’re only available in the silver/Aspen Gold scheme, and the gold color on the nose is WAY too dark. Besides, I never thought that was a particularly attractive scheme, anyway. I’d like PA’s for my CZ, but only in either the early black and yellow (shortlived) scheme, or the later gold/silver 4-stripe scheme. The Genesis units are spectacular–beautifully detailed, smooth-running and powerful. You can get the Genesis F units in any of the 3 railroads that hauled the CZ–Burlington, Rio Grande and Western Pacific. With sound or without (mine are w/o), and the price is really reasonable for an A-B set with both units powered.
Tom
twhite,
Have you seen color photo’s of the silver and orange PA’s? The orange on the nose looks like a reasonable shade. I have a photo in my Rio Grande in Color, Volume 2: Utah and the nose looks very orange and not the yellow orange “grande gold” seen on say the Prospector.
As for the silver/orage PA’s, they only ran that way for 3 years max in 1949-1952, when they were repainted in the long lived aspen gold/silver 4-stripe paint scheme. They pulled the CZ into 1958 when they were replaced by F3ABBA sets exclusively on the Rio Grande.
The black F3’s offered by BLI pulled the CZ very little, only up to about 1952 when they were repainted but it was mainly PA’s pulling with some F3’s at that time.
As for power to pull my BLI CZ cars, I also bought Athearn Genesis F units. I prefer the single stripe paint job of post 1961. I have an F3AB set (#5541,5542) and a all F9ABBBA’s (#5771, 5762, 5763, 5773 and 5774). It appears on Athearns website the #5774, 4773 F9AB set is still available and the F3AB set #5544, 5543 are going to be in stock this fall.
In case time period matters - on the Rio Grande it was:
F3’s -Black with yellow stripes until 1952, then yellow with 4 black stripes until 1962 and then yellow with a single back stripe after 1961. Most F units were painted into singe stripe between 1961 and 1964 (most)
PA’s were delivered in 1946 black with yellow stripes, then 1949 painted silver with orange nose, then 1952 painted yellow with 4 black stripes. Two of the PA’s were painted with a single stripe in the early-mid 1960’s but didn’t pull the CZ in that paint.
Do you mean these?
Riogrande–
Thanks for that information, believe me it helps a LOT!
Actually, my Yuba River Sub is set in the era from 1940-50, and I’m really ‘up-dating’ by using the 4-stripe scheme on my F-3’s to haul the CZ. I was really hoping for F-3’s or PA’s in the early black and yellow scheme.
As to the silver and orange scheme on the PA’s, I was basing my observation on some Rio Grande promotional color film that is used as a sort of ‘prelude’ to a 1952 movie called DENVER AND RIO GRANDE (a fictional western about the Royal Gorge war of the 1880’s), which shows the CZ being pulled by both black and yellow F-3’s and the silver PA’s show up with a decidedly yellow nose. However, that could also be due to processing the 3-strip Technicolor that was used back in that era. Actually, almost every color photo I’ve seen of them shows a little differentation in the shade, so you’re probably right–BLI got the color right, even though some of us are used to a different shade because of photos we’ve seen and remembered. But as I said, I never thought it a particularly attractive scheme, so I’d be more prone to go with the black and yellow (shortlived) or the later 4-stripe scheme, but only because of the era in which my MR is set.
But again, thanks for the information. As I said, it REALLY helps!!
Tom
That is the beauty of the CZ cars from BLI. They were pulled by three different railroads and the three railroads all had more than one type of diesels on the train at one time or another.
I use the Genesis Western Pacific F3A F3b F3b set with soundtraxx installed in them. The Genesis set is about the top dog model for the WP plastic version and the simulated stainless is great looking with the train in tow. Later on, the standard for the WP was an FP7-F3b-F3b. I believe the CBQ used both F3’s at first and then some E units. The D&RGW used both the PA’s and the F units for their portion of the CZ.
It is a great train and a web site is listed below for you to look at the Zephyr history.
http://calzephyr.railfan.net/home.html
Cheers
I don’t know that they made any specifically to pull them. As the others have said they have made several that were appropriate. Personally I pull mine with three of the BLI CB&Q E units, either E7s or E8s. If you go for Western Pacific units remember the passenger F units have the RED wings on the nose not the black. PCM (BLI by another name) is currently shipping the D&RGW PA’s in the original silver scheme. PCM is also made the CB&Q & WP F units. Their were some great deals on them around Christmas last year. Don’t know if that is still true, but check out Train World in NY. They had the F units plus passenger cars in a set.
Proto 2000 has made PA units in all three of the other D&RGW schemes used (black, gold 4 stripe, and gold single stripe). Proto has also made CB&Q E7s and E8s that would be prototypical for that train.
Stewart has made many F units that would work. I have a set of the silver CB&Q F3s, but I just think Fs look very funny on a CB&Q passenger train.
Athearn Genesis line has several D&RGW F units that are appropriate.
I really really would not limit yourself to Broadway Limited Locomotives as there a sooo many other options available. Basically you can choose which Road and Loco type. I’ve got one picture that has a D&RGW black GP unit cut in. Apparently the train was too heavy for the normal locomotives.
I presume here you are talking about the CZ cars themselves. They are exquisite. In my opinion they are the best passenger car on the market. Much better than brass. Bett
Was the CZ ever pulled by steam? Even just once? My athearn DRGW Challenger is looking for work.
I have a photo of some of the CZ cars behind a WP steamer. The CZ was not officially running yet and they were just testing some of the cars in another train. It is not unbelievable that the D&RGW did the same thing.
I have some of them, too, and cannot agre to “much better than brass”. They are really nice models - and better than most older brass, but they don’t come even close to W&R’s NP cars or OMI’s N&W “Powhatan Arrow” or CIL’s GN “Empire Builder” or “Oriental Limited” - among others. But yes - I agree that one wion’t be disappointed with them.
In general I would say very unlikely - perhaps as helper service at the most. Gandy Dancer wrote another option, too.
For your Challenger I would say impossible. If I understand it right CZ was created after WW2. The site mentioned above states the train ran the last time in 1969, serving “20years and 2 days” - making the start in 1949. D&RGW did not like those UP clone 4-6-6-4s - for good reason - their own L-105 was more powerful, and especially the Centipede tenders of the UP engines brought problems I have read. D&RGW parted with those engines as fast as they could - very quickly after WW2. Use it for freight - during a short time frame of 4 years - and that’s about it.
GandyDancer,
I believe the appropriate road power for the CB&Q California Zephyr were ABA sets of F3s. The F3s were the only ones painted in passenger silver and not graybacks. They also carried 9900 series numbers, not 100 series numbers. The F3s were also geared for passenger service instead of freight service. Using E units may look better to you but would be unprototypical.
The CZ was the successor to the Exposition Flyer. The EF was started to take visitors to the Panama Exposition in SF. I’d have ti check by BB for specific details as the when the EF started and ebded and the CZ started.
Actually not. I have photos of the CZ being pulled by CB&Q E7’s and E8’s elephant style in the 1960’s. It may have been pulled by CB&Q F3 sets early on, but in the 60’s it appears to be E units. I am looking at photo right now dated 1962 caption: "Early flute-side E5 diesel make a rare substutution for E8/E9 power on the CZ in Brookfield on August 12, 1962. There is a 1970 shot and an undated shot showing E7’s and E8’s. (these pictures are in Zephyr’s thru the Rockies by Edmonson and Goodheart.
As far as WP goes, it was F3ABB sets at the beginning but FP7’s were purchased around 1952 and I believe after that date FP7A’s led the CZ on WP tracks.
Before the CZ trainsets were complete, the CZ passenger cars were inserted into the Exposition flyer. I have seen numerous photo’s of a mixed CZ and heavyweight EF train prior to the inaugeration of the California Zephyr.
According the book titled, “The story of the California Zephyr”, F units were purchased for the WP and CB&Q portion of the train and the D&RGW purchased the PA’s. The early pictures show the PA’s on the D&RGW but one early shot also shows the F units pinch hitting for a PA set. The D&RGW used the PA’s also on their portion of the run as long as they could be maintained until the mid fifties when the EMD F units replaced the ALSO’s.
The CB&Q pictures show the F units when the train was new and they show E units after some period of time. It does not name dates for many of the pictures, but the CB&Q used both types of EMD units and the E units mostly in the end. It could be the F units had been regeared for other service after the early fifties.
It would seem logical to use either set of power for the D&RGW and CB&Q depending on your time frame and era. Never say never! No matter what power is on the front of those BLI Zephyr cars, it will look great. I added the PRR add on sleeper for my WP Zephyr train.
The web sites below shows the E units in later years.
http://calzephyr.railfan.net/gallery/phcbq9967.jpg
http://calzephyr.railfan.net/gallery/phcbq9966.jpg
the site below shows the D&RGW PA’s
Actually, the CB&Q F-3 sets would only be prototypical for a short time frame after the 1949 introduction of the train. Some very smart person on the power desk worked out a service rotation for psgr diesels that would permit the use of inter-city E units on their Chicago layover to run out to Aurora and back and thus permit the overnight replacement of steam on the commuter service (this is also why the Q never bought any EB units after the E-5s)
Jim
That is what the book implies, but did not give any firm dates. I do know most of the pictures in the fifties were of the E units in the California Zephyr service.
Cheers
The FP7’s were purchased in January of 1950. The WP only purchase two more passenger B units to go along with the four A units and so the original F3B’s were used with the new FP7’s most for most of the pictures I can find.
The official order information is listed below for the FP7’s. I try to model the as new or one year old Zephyr with the F3A, F3b and F3b set.
| 6043A | 01.50 | 9002-9005 | FP7 | WP | 804A, 804C, 805A, 805C | 4 |
|---|
Calzeph,
Thanks for the correction on the FP7 arrival date. I don’t follow the WP closely and was speaking entirely from memory. My main point was however, that the WP didn’t lead the CZ with F3A’s except for the early years… after that it was an FP7A lead train with F3B’s and some F7B’s as boosters.