BLI Quality - Am I Alone?

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

I have somewhat similar posts, but I want see if others have had the quality issues I have.

I have now had five BLI Steam engines: Paragon 2 Mikado (2011), Paragon 2 Reading T1, Paragon 2 Unlettered T1, Paragon 2 Hudson, and an older Paragon Hudson.

Every one of the Paragon 2 locos has jerked sometimes violently enough to shake the 20 cars behind it. Every one of them also grinds in reverse to the point that it nearly overpowers the DCC sound. The brand new Mikado I just received does a little of the same. Slightly better this time, but still a slight hint of jerky (I guess I’ll tolerate it).

Except for the tolerable Mikado, I have returned every Paragon 2 at least once for service, a couple have gone back twice, and 2 have never been adequately repaired where thankfully, I received a refund. In the meantime, you could spend up to 6 months with no product depending on how many times you have to return it because it takes 12 weeks for the first repair job. I have read the posts where people tend to defend the manufacturer and then go on to talk about how they had to fix the problem themselves by tweaking springs for the drivers, filing down bearings, etc.

The old Paragon Hudson I have exhibits none of these problems. What is wrong wit

2

I have had no such problems with any BLI Paragon 2 locomotives. My only problem with one has been a burned out ditch light bulb on an ES4400AC diesel engine, and I’m not going to attempt opening it up to change the bulb after all the problems I ran into trying to access the bulbs in an older Blue Line engine.

3

I’ve had BLI Paragon 2 Brass Hybrid Hudson and it was the best looking model I’ve ever had. Detailed, very good cosmetic quality. Unfortunately, it did not run smoothly at low speed, and there was some other issue I don’t remember now - but it ruined the whole experience. I sent it to BLI for repair, and they swapped out the drive train chassis, it came back to me - and basically same hesitation at low speed. Someone on Youtube had same exact problem, you can look it up. Meanwhile, everyone and their mom on this board was putting down MTH for their toy like tender distance, limited DCC, support of their DCS system etc etc. I bought MTH Hudson and never looked back. I take it back, I looked back when I sold my BLI Hudson on eBay :slight_smile:

I later modified MTH drawbar and tender for short gap. It was hard, delicate work (I managed to modify drawbar without disconnecting it from the engine) - but it was well worth it and MTH model looks awesome.

4

I should have clarified that this is an issue with the STEAM locomotives.

I agree on MTH - I have their Berkshire and the thing is quite a looker and runs perfectly - AT ALL SPEEDS. I don’t give them high marks for DCC configuration, but I will live with that and the extra cost. For those who complain about the drawbar distance, I would consider the lurching more toy-like than that!! What good is a locomtive that never resides in your collection because it is constantly in the shop for repairs!

5

I’ve had exactly ONE (1) BLI steamer and I’ll never buy another one even if it’s on sale for $30. The ONLY steam loco I’ve had that ran worse is a Bachmann 0-6-0 that I gutted and made into a rusty steamer display. I gave the BLI away and I seem to remember the new owner made it into a dummy.

6

I also agree on the MTH. I have an MTH Challenger, and 3 SD70Aces, and all of them run perfectly.

Now that MTH is offering the DCC flash upgrade, to get all the functionality of a traditional decoder. Those arguments about MTH not being fully DCC featured should be a thing of the past.

7

I actually bought quite a few BLI’s when the locos first came out–mainly because I thought the sound was 'cool–but, I’ve gradually sold most of them off. Not because of running problems (they all ran very well), but of dual-mode incompatability with my other DC steamers. So far, all I’ve kept for running on the layout is my SP AC-5, which I was able to program down to about 5 volts DC starting capacity, and my E-6 A-B-B COSF set. I’ve still got a couple of Pennsy M-1a’s and a Santa Fe 4-8-4, but they’re pretty much stored away. They run very well, though, when I unbox them. But being strictly DC, as I said, they’re not much good in tandem with my other DC locos.

I’ve heard a lot of complaints about the quality control of newer BLI’s. I’m wondering if a lot of it has to do with changing their manufacturer from Korea (mine are mostly all Korean) to China.

Tom

8

For a while BLI had quite a varied selection of steamers in their Refurbhished Deals section on their website. Not these days. Either they have a new policy of fixing returns and sending them back to the customers, or they aren’t having to fix much these days and post them for quick reduction sales in their Refurbished Deals.

BLI makes runs in the 2000 loco range, and I have seen a number of complaints. However, they are few, and they are always resolved. I have begun to see more complaints about MTH, especially about their customer service. I can’t say much about the other HO manufacturers, but I get the strong sense that everyone his having problems, even Atlas.

9

Strezzy, and yet you kept on buying them? Why?

10

Good question! Hope, most of all.

But alas I have stopped. The Mikado was the last one.

11

I only have one steamer from BLI and it is my N&W Class J 611 and I have had no issues with that engine at all. Smooth slow running and great pulling. It also looks great. I cant complain. I have had this engine since 2006.

Massey

12

Old Paragon or Paragon 2? that seems to be the real issue - perhaps manufacturer related.

13

I love to hate BLI. [:-^] While I have not had a Paragon II yet but I have had a few.

Blue Line UP GE AC 6000 Darn near caught fire. Ulrich Models exchanged it. (great company)

Blue Line UP GE AC 6000 Lost power pick up from rear truck. Said the heck with it and sold.

Blue Line CSX GE AC 6000 Good runner and sounded great till it sucked up a spike. RIP for now

Blue Line Santa Fe RSD 15 Great Engine!

Paragon Class J (first BLI) after 3 days took it back to LHS and He exchanged it

Paragon Class J Broke the day I got it home, fixed the nut that fell off. Lasted for some time till I sold it. I give it a 7 out of 10

Paragon M1 A Broke with in 2 days, cracked the center gear. There was not a speck of lube on the gear. BLI sent me the gear for free and I did the repair. It has broken another one and I fixed it my self.

Paragon Hudson, I had to work to get it to track, but I have never opened it. I give it a 8 as well.

Paragon Heavy Mike Sound just sucks so not much rail time. Wheels came out of quarter and sent it back to BLI. Now there is no power pick up from the tender, it is on my RIP Track and main remain there. I give a 4 when it was working.

PCM Big Boy Would not track out of the box due to the draw bar. I opened the engine with in 2 days of getting it. Fixed that problem. Then a bout a month later it ate a decoder so I sent it in, they said nothing wrong with it and sent it back. Installed a sound decoder and speaker kit from Ulrich Models and it sound great! Got about 60 hours out of it, now it shorts out going around a turn. I have a good idea what is wrong and will fix my self. On appearances, I would give it a 10, Running I give it a 8.

PCM Y6 b I give it a 15 out of 10, it is what ever Steam Engine should be. Did send it in one time, put all it was is the decoder came lose. Loksound 3.5 sound is great and slow speed is unreal! I finally wore it o

14

Hi!

I’ve got 3 BLI steamers and 6 diesels - all HO with DCC and sound. They are my “best” locos, and I have well over 50 from various manufacturers.

That being said, one of the RSD-15s wouldn’t produce any sound. I sent it back and it turns out the sound unit was just not installed at the factory! BLI took care of that, and while I was without the loco for 6 weeks, it is just fine now.

The thing is, these locos are really complicated and delicate pieces of work. Imagine being manufactured overseas, stuffed into a container, trucked to a ship, loaded on to the ship, and days later unloaded from the ship and reloaded to a railcar, travel across the country, get unloaded from the railcar and loaded onto a truck, driven to the warehouse, unloaded to storage, subsequently shipped to a distributor or a retailer - typically by truck, unpacked, and then repacked, put on a UPS truck, then on a UPS plane, then onto at least one other UPS truck, and dropped (hopefully not to hard) upon your doorstep.

Yikes, just the thought of that makes me wonder how any of them are OK !

15

Mobilman, Wow, they do a lot of moving around.

I’m just plain worn out from all of that traveling. [:(]

16

First generation Paragon here. I have an SD40-2 that is also first gen Paragon and it runs great as well. It is a tad too loud for my layout in my little shed but it is a smooth runner.

Massey

17

I have a number of the older Blueline and Paragon series but only a couple of the new Paragon 2 series. I’ve only had one issue with an older Paragon Hudson. It had the slow speed issue you’re referring to but I haven’t bothered getting into the engine to see what the reason is yet. I can’t say I’ve had any of the issues you or others refer to.

18

JimStrez,
At my club, we’ve had similar problems with the new Paragon 2’s. It started with the very first Paragon 2’s, the AC6000’s. It drove me nuts trying to find the problem and fix it. Well, I never really determined what the problem is, but the solution that worked was replacing the Digitrax booster.

The issues with the sudden stop of the Paragon 2’s only happened in blocks powered by that certain booster. No other engines did it, and the Paragon 2’s only did that in that booster section. I pulled it out and replaced it, and the problems went away. I sent the booster to Digitrax, but they couldn’t find anything wrong with it.

All I can figure is that the new Paragon 2 decoders pull a lot more power than the old ones, especially with a smoke unit (which might explain why your Mikado was sort-of okay as it doesn’t have smoke). I also have a new Paragon 2 Mikado, and I’ve used it on my home layout (just a Zephyr). I didn’t have any problems with it there.

Meanwhile, my BLI Paragon 1 New Haven I-5 4-6-4 steam engine is the pride of my loco fleet. I was able to haul 14 heavyweight passenger cars around my club’s layout with ease duing the last operation session.

Paul A. Cutler III

19

No, you are not alone, Jim. While I have greatly appreciated the NYC offerings from BLI over the years, I have been less than enamored by their “running” quality. I have five BLI locomotives - all steamers:

  • Paragon USRA NYC H-6a 2-8-2 “Light” Mike
  • Brass-Hybrid NYC L-4a 4-8-2 Mohawk
  • Paragon2 NYC J-1e 4-6-4 Hudson
  • Paragon2 NYC J-3 4-6-4 “Dreyfuss” Hudson
  • Blueline NYC S-1 4-8-4 Niagara

ONLY the first one - an original Paragon series locomotive - has never needed to be sent to the BLI back shop in Ormand Beach, FL for repair. The Mohawk, Hudsons, and Niagara all had slight binding issues with the drivers. Both of the Paragon2 Hudsons also had decoder/shorting issues during programming.

To give BLI credit, they have fixed each one of the locomotives the first time and never charged me a cent for the repairs. And they all run beautifully. The binding issues were fixed by shimming the slop out of the drivers. With the Brass-Hybrid, BLI completely replaced the unit. The decoder/shorting issues were related to the smoke unit, which has been manually turned off. I believe BLI replaced one of the Paragon2 decoders completely.

With that said, I would be hesitant about ordering another BLI steamer. While I much prefer the quality of the detailing of BLI models to their MTH counterparts, MTH units do consistently run better. I am NOT sold on the Paragon2 decoder either. While the sound has improved, the low-speed response is only slightly better than the original Paragon series locomotives - even after tweaking Vstart (CV2). (NOT the improvements that I expected with a newer decoder design.) The shorting issue was very annoying to deal with.

I still like and prefer the Blueline series concept. My Niagara is a real sweetheart. It did have slight binding issues but they were quickly resolved by BLI. I love the idea of being able to

20

I would tend to agree.

Although I have never personally bought a BLI steamer, I have read WAY to many reports here on these forums about bad performance, poor performance, lack of performance, no performance, need of repairs, need of “tweeking” to get it to run right and returning it to the service department, waiting for the service department, having to return it AGAIN to the service department, that I have officially decided that for the money they charge less the apparent quality issues equals a “no purchase order” from me.

I thought MAYBE MTH would be better {?}, but apparnetly NOT. I have read way to much about their failures to believe THAT for a minute either.

They say that all the models of washing machines are made in the same exact factory in China, and I believe the same is true of locos. Apparetnly crap comes out of the loco factory, regardless of brand name or price. Apparently CHina seems to think “Americans will buy any junk we throw at them and think it a bargain” It’s time we showed CHina we will not accept “less than”.

If we brought back AMERICAN jobs and QUALITY to the locos, I WOULD WILLINGLY pay $300 of my hard won money for a QUALITY AMERICAN MADE loco!

Until them, my cheaper $100 or so steamer or $50 diesels of Bachmann DCC OnBoard locos with simple DCC board and control {I don’t “do” sound} , operated on my simple Bachmann EZ COmmand DCC controller {regardless of where made} makes me just fine and happy.

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