BLI questions

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

Hi, in the past week I have acquired my first BLI locos…one E7A and two 2-8-2 Light Mikados. All came from ebay and are “new in the box.” I have tested these locos on analog. The E7A sounds awesome. However, when I put it on the programming track (I use NCE’s PowerPro 5 amp system) it will not read the manufacturer’s id or decoder version. I get the “cannot read CV” message. Usually this spells trouble and means a faulty decoder installation. I placed a call to BLI tech support yesterday and was basically told to ignore the prompt, but am still cautious. Has anyone else ran into this with BLI locos?

Now to the 2-8-2’s. Both sound like crap compared to the E7 and to my P2K 0-8-0, which utilizes the same QSI system and has identical sounds. The 2-8-2 sound is weak and somewhat distorted. I was told by BLI tech support that the volume could be turned up manually, but I checked and it is already at the highest setting. BTW, the manufacturer ID and decoder version is readable on the programming track for these locos.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

2

If I understand you, I would be a bit suspicious of those two Mikados. There is absolutely no reason for both of them to sound bad since true QSI factory installations are almost always engineered and sound quite good, if too loud when you first power them. It almost seems as if they have been doctored by “someone.” However, I cannot account for your ability to read their CVs and not on the E-7.

The tender shells on some BLI locos can be pryed up easily and off of the frame. Their large tenders have screws I believe, but my Hudson is a lift-off close fit. Compare the manual photos to what you see…you may find that something as simple as speaker position has been altered by happenstance or on purpose.

I hope you get it all sorted out. It would be a shame to not be able to enjoy your winnings.

3

The problem is they are probably turned up too loud.

You should be able to read the values. You might not be able to program on the program track. You CAN program on the main, everything can be changed on the main, even the address. The volume can be controlled manually, either with the knob under the water hatch or the magnetic wand, depending on the version of QSI decoder it is. But that only changes the master overall volume. I’ve found that to get best sound you need to cut the overall volume AND adjust the various sounds for a proper mix, you need to balance out the chuffs with the whistle, bell, and all the other sounds.

I don’t think those units came with them, but if they have smoke generators,they MUST be disconnected or they will never work on the program track. You might also want to try muting the sound ont he main then moving them to the program track.

–Randy

4

Hi and [#welcome]

Many sound decoders, including QSIs, are difficult if not impossible to read on the program track. This is because the NMRA specs for program tracks were written several years ago, before there WERE sound decoders! They have lots of capacitors and other stuff that take a high current, and the program tracks just can’t deal with them.

You can get a PowerPax program track amplifier from Tony’s or other DCC dealers for about $50. SoundTraxx also makes one, and somebody else, too, I forget just now who.

BUT, you really don’t need to read a QSI on the program track – you can get the little dude in the engine to TELL you what any CV value is – just set CV 64 to the CV number you want, and he’ll read it out for you!

In addition, if you set CV 62 to 1, then he’ll give you a confirmation any time you set a CV (except 64) … such as, “CV 3 equals one zero”. You and I would call that “ten”, but you get the idea.

This can be a bit of a pain, however, when setting QSI’s two- or three-part CVs, because he will tell you “CV 49 equals . . .” while you’re trying to set the next part.

One other caution: the little dude has a one-track mind. He won’t “listen” to a command to change a CV while he’s telling you about the previous one, so wait for him to get done. It’s only polite, after all!

About the Mikados. It is possible somebody, at the factory or a dealer, put some strange CV values in your engines and didn’t reset them to factory specs. So first, do a factory reset. Here’s a link to Tony’s “rescue” instructions for any decoder: http://www.tonystrains.com/technews/dec_rescue.htm

As you’ll see, for QSI, you might have a “wand”, or:

Set CV49 to 110

Set CV50 to 255 (but wait for the little dude to confirm CV49)

5

Shawnee,

I agree with Randy. Try manually turning down the volume on your two Mikes. When I got my BLI Mike in the mail last year, it was cranked all the way up and the sound distorted badly. Turn the volume down till it just stops distorting and it will sound A LOT better.

I wish I could tell you something about the E7s. It may be that the PH Pro doesn’t have enough oomph on the programming track for sound decoders. However, if that were the case, you would/should also have problems with your Mikes, too. NCE specifically addressed the CAN NOT READ CV issue with their older systems when they released the Power Cab. They increased that amperage going to the programming track slightly to compensate for the bigger draw from the sound decoders.

Tom

6

Thanks for the replies. The tender shell on these models pries up. It is very similar to the photo shown in the manual. The speaker placement appears correct; I noted no evidence of any “tinkering.” The manual adjustment knob on both were turned all the way up. I turned them down slightly, but the sound is still not good. Bear in mind that this was on analog for reasons I’ll get to in a minute. There are no smoke generators on these locos.

The reason I was hesitant to proceed with the E7 in ops mode is because the last time I got a “Cannot Read CV” prompt I went ahead anyway and smoked the decoder. This happened on my first decoder installation, as I pinched wires when putting the shell back on. I am new to DCC within the past year and picked up my first sound unit a couple of months ago, which was the P2K 0-8-0.

I am unable try anything with DCC for the next couple of days as I have pulled the system as of yesterday. We live in the lower Midwest and have received heavy rainfall on already saturated ground. The basement is currently seeping water. When this happens, I pull my command station, throttles, and all decoder equipped locos until it stops seeping as I do not want condensation getting into anything. When the seeping stops and the dehumidifier has returned the air to normal, I will put everything back. I will then try to balance the sound out as Randy suggested, and listen to what the little dude has to say about the other CV’s.

Maybe I was spoiled by how the P2K and E7 sound were “out of the box.” I do have the original warranty cards from BLI and have registered the 2-8-2’s but would like to solve this problem myself if possible.

My major expense for 2007 will be sealing the basement so I can begin a permanent layout. 34 x 36.’ It will be very costly, but what the heck…we’re talking about my trains! If anyone has other ideas on th

7

It is also possible that both speakers have somehow become compromised. There may be tears in the cone, or maybe their baffles are not properly adhered and consequently there is a harsh vibrating sound to them. Now that you have turned down the volume manually, there should be a distinct improvement. If not, something else is amiss with either the speaker or its footing. Maybe adding some electrical tape or some cotton batten around other areas of the shell may dampen the unwanted noise.

Now I’m tapped out.

8

Once I most became crazy about a distorting sound in a loco; I blowed compressed air everywhere…I was near to ordering 2 new speakers…but, previously, I inspected the inner side of the speakers, and voilá!: The cause? one speaker pick-uped a little wire from anywhere in the rails!!! I removed it and all works fine. Bye.

9

I’ll share this for what it’s worth, probably nothing, but then I would hate for this to work and not share it. I had an RS#3 that I had problems programming. Spent off and on two months trying to get it to work, even tried a different decoder. I got messages anywhere from can’t read cv’s to page mode and it would not program. It finally turned out to be something as simple as not enough weight on the engine when I was trying to program it. All of the engine weight is in the shell of the RS3 and there simply wasn’t enough weight left with just the frame for it to read the decoder. I applied a small amount of pressure with my finger on the trucks of the engine while on the programming track and it programmed. Maybe we’ll get lucky and this will help.

My sound equipped MP15 got a could not read cv message but still programmed. I model the L&N also. Good luck.
Clay Smith
Hopkinsville KY

10

I just bought a P2K Erie E-8 with QSI sound and I have had the same problem with my NCE Power Pro system. It will not read the CVs on the program track. It will, however, program on the main. But there is a trick to it. The first step in programming is to set the long address, unless you want to keep the short one. When you program the long address the engine will respond with verbal confirmation that the address is set. But then it won’t run, or even start in the long address. Turn to page 42 of your NCE manual and you will find the reason. You must turn off verbal confirmation (set CV 62 to 0) for the long address to be set properly. Do that and the rest of the programming will proceed without a hitch. And the verbal confirmation will work again when programming CVs and CFGs.

Re the E-8: The QSI sound misses the mark on this one. The EMD 567 engine has a very distinctive sound. David P. Morgan (Trains editor some years ago) called it a “chant.” QSI isn’t even close. The sound is more generic diesel - nearer to Alco to my ear. The horn is even worse. The model comes with a single-chime honker, the kind Erie used on their freight engines. It is just wrong for this model.

On the plus side, the E-8 runs very well. It is smooth and strong, but not as strong as the non-sound version. The air brakes (function 7) are fun to play with. too.

11

Everyone, thanks for the help. I hooked DCC back up this evening. I put the E7 in ops mode and there is absolutely no problem with it. It runs and sounds great. I checked first on the programming track and again it would not read the decoder. I guess I was gunshy from previous experience with one of my own installations when the decoder could not be read.

Now to those blasted mikes. I worked with only one this evening. The sound continues to be poor and distorted. I attempted the reset to factory settings with CV’s. I got verbal acknowledgements from the “little dude” on CV49 is 110 and CV50 is 255. I got no verbal response when I set CV56 to 113, nor did I get the 3 hoots. I tried this twice. I then did the reset jumper and this time got the 3 hoots. No improvement in the sound, however.

I have turned the volume down manually. Even at lower volume, the whistle and bell continue to sound distorted. I have not tried to adjust all of the various sounds yet as rrinker suggested; do not feel confident enought to try that yet, but plan to read some more on it tonight. I’m done for the night as I tend to make mistakes when I am tired.

Clay, good to see another L&N modeler on here. I am not all that far away; just 45 minutes north of Paducah.

I’ll post more on this tomorrow evening.

12

I had the same problem with my Class J and Hudson, does the shell sound like it rattels when you blow the whistle or bell rings? If so here is the fix another great member here gave me.

Take some electial tape and mount it to the inside of the tender body where it hooks to the chassis. Makes the shell fit much tighter then play with the volume. Fixed both of my BLI and with the new one coming will do it before even run it.

No Rattels Ken

13

ShawneeHawk,

I think may have discovered your problem. I saw the QSI reset numbers that you had listed (which are the exact SAME one’s listed on Tony’s Train Exchange web site) and it kept bugging me because the CV49 value was different than what I remembered it being.

Sure enough. I double-checked my QSI Reference Manual and found out that CV49 should have a value of 128, NOT 110. The reset sequence will be as such:

  • CV49 = 128
  • CV50 = 256
  • CV56 = 113

That should reset those pesky Mikes for you. Unfortunately, that won’t help your possible speaker issues - i.e. if that’s what it turns out to be…

Tom

14

Here’s an update on my progress with the 2-8-2’s. Setting CV49 to 128 did the trick for the factory reset and I got the 3 hoots. This didn’t solve the problem, however. I have tried adjusting the volumes of the various sounds as Randy suggested, and it seems like there is a slight improvement. But the sound still pales compared to my P2K 0-8-0 and the BLI E7.

After reading Cudaken’s post, I notice that the tenders vibrate significantly with not only the whistle and bell, but with the steam chuffs as well. This must be an issue with the speakers or the baffles. I have not tried putting tape or any cotton in the tender yet. I could see having problems with one of the 2-8-2’s, but both? I’ll try to work on the tenders this evening or tomorrow, but am tempted to send these locos back to BLI Warranty.

15

ShawneeHawk,

A question for you. Does the distortion or vibration that you hear happen no matter what the volume level is set at? I’m just wondering how far you are actually turning the level down. Just as Randy stated, I probably turned the overall volume down on my BLI Mike 25-35% before the distortion went away. I’m not questioning your ears. I’m just trying to get a feel for whether your problem is really distortion from an overdriven speaker, or from a bad baffle.

Tom

16

Tom, I don’t think I turned them down that much. I used the manual adjustment screw under the hatch, and the volume dropped off pretty quick. Would it be better to program this thru CV’s? I’ll test again and let you know about the vibration. It did seem to me like the whistle and bell sounded distorted no matter what the volume was.

Thanks for your help; however, this is making me feel like a real dunce.

17

My other hobby is Audiophile stereo gear, means I spend way to much for stuff. I use to bulid speakers when I was younger and will tell you one thing, if the cabinet is not tight it will sound like Caboose!

Ever have a young person with to much stereo and insuffent car pull up next to you at a stop light and you can hear the trunk rattel? Trunk is the sound box (cabinet) and is not tight! Your tender is the sound box on the BLI, same thing as the trunk.

MY Hudson rattel like heck, did the tape and now can run at 90% and no rattel. When I am done with this posting the M1a is coming a part for the same fix. Why spend this kind of money if you have to tell everyone to be quite, I want to hear my $200.00 + steam engine run?

Cuda Ken

18

Hey, I see you finally found your 2-8-2’s and 0-8-0. Good for you!

In my opinion, the Lifelike/Walthers QSI version does sound slightly better than the BLI, but I wouldn’t say the BLI’s sound “bad” in the least. All of them were way too loud for my tastes. I currently have mine set to around 32 out of 255. I like to only hear the one nearest me if there is another one running on the other side of the room. I also have my whistle and bell adjusted to what I think is a “prototypical” relationship to the chuff.

The BLI tenders have no baffle, other than the tender shell. Those 2-8-2’s apparently have a “USRA” high “banshee” type whistle, as it is very different from my BLI PRR M1, K4, etc. The 2-8-2 heavy is also a slightly lower quality product than the 2-8-2 light and other offerings. They call it “Powerhouse” as opposed to “Parragon” or whatever. I have a 2-8-2 light, and the afore mentioned K4, M1, J1, and T1. They all have working front couplers and hinged tender decks among other areas with slightly more depth of detail.

I did have a problem on my M1 and one of my E7’s. The volume pot (knob) was defective, and if turned, merely turned the sound off. BLI sent me replacement knob assemblies no questions asked. Out of curiosity what are your volume cv’s set at? If you are running them loud, you may in fact have rattle issues.

My problems are at the other end of the spectrum. For some reason if you go below a quarter- 65 of 255, some sounds go away, like the bell. It takes lots of tweaking to get them all the way I like them. I think the upgrade chip fixes that.

Once you get the curve of the multi level cv’s they’re not too bad, and you can get into a rythm of sorts. I have a Prodigy Advance, and do my sound on the main, from the prompt. It goes like this…cv51=10(or whatever selects the bell), then cv52 (mappable by cv 51)=34, then cv52=33, then cv52=32, etc until the bell sounds ri

19

My [2c]

The Tender cover is the BAFFEL for the sound. Pull the cover and blow the whistle it should be as loud as a Whisper. No Baffel to bounce off the sound it just goes in space. NOW, put a piece of foam or anything soft over the tender leaving JUST the speaker opening uncovered on the bottom. Did the volume go UP and sound better?

If YES then the sound is escaping out and not being directed thru the bottom. Loose tender fit or speaker mounts not tight to the frame.

If NO then you have a speaker or speaker driver problem.

CHECK the wires on the speakers are they touching anything and bare at that point?

I have about 10 or 15 BLI units and all will blow out your ears if you let them. All have the new chips and program well on the program track. I use Decoder Pro from JMRI (free program).

Hope you find it.

20

Now we’re getting someplace. I removed the tender shell, covered the top with cotton balls, and really noticed the difference. I then applied the electrical tape to the tender shell and put it back on. I went to CV49 and reduced the overall volume from 127, which is the maximum (and default) to 95. I also reduced the whistle some. All vibration and rattle is now gone from both Mikes. I am going to play around with some of the other individual sounds…it’s showing a big improvement; not quiet up to the P2K 0-8-0 yet, but we are on the right track (pun intended). I want to thank everyone who has given me advice on this thread, and I will report back when I have adjusted things further.

1948PRR, good to see you again!