BNSF is rebuilding some of their ex-ATSF GP35s into what it calls GP39-3s. It appears BNSF is assigning new numbers for these rebuilt locos too. BNSF 2656 - ex BNSF 2593 - nee ATSF 2893 and ATSF 3393.
I assume that these are very similiar to the BN GP39V/M rebuild program? But obv, microprocessor equipped as the -3 indicates…
Wonder how many 645’s they can find to replace the 567 prime movers? There is plenty of work for these 4 axle middleweights.
This would be the 2nd rebuild of these locos. ATSF did a major rebuild/overhaul of their GP30/35s in the early 1980s. The work included simplifying the GP35’s complicated electrical system though, IIRC, they also got 645 engine blocks. What amazes me is that BNSF is retiring the former ATSF GP30s while keeping GP35s, which were only 2-3 years newer. ATSF’s designation for these after the early 80s rebuild was GP30u and GP35u.
What is the horsepower on this units?
The GP30 electrical cabinet is different size and shape from that in the GP35 ( taller and shallower) meaning they would require a customized layout at greater expense. That was enough to lower the ROI on modifying them. The ATSF rebuilds did not receive 645 blocks or power assemblies when rebuilt previously.
I’ll have to dig through my back issues of Diesel Era but IIRC the ATSF rebuilt GP35’s retained their 567 Crankcases (large marine/railroad/electrical generation diesel engines are not built on an engine block in the same way an automobile engine is) but with new 645 power assemblies. This is also the case with the BN GP39M/V and GP28(remanufactured from GP9 and GP18 cores)…
Too bad CN wouldn’t rebuild some of their four axle units instead of retiring them all. I’ve seen switching around yards in my area done by SD70-75I and C44-9W units because thre were no suitable four axle units too use!
Could the BNSF rebuilders perform the same service for other railroads?
Andrew
I’ve switched with SD70’s and they are hard on the rail and about jerk you off the side of a rail car. Of course, the new Genset units, either tri-power or all electric are unable to operate for 12 hours without breaking down.
I’m sure they could, If BNSF wanted to get into the RR supply business. NS of course does contract locomotive assembly and rebuilding at their Altoona facility. Given that there are a number of firms in the rebuilding market I don’t see why BNSF would want in…
Before the merger, ATSF had rebuilding programs in the 70s and 80s at it’s Cleburne, Topeka and San Bernardino shops, producing rebuilds as the CF7 and SD26, the one-of-kind EMD-repowering of a Baldwin switcher, known as the BEEP, and rebuilding GP7/9, GP30/35s and SD/F/FP45s. Don’t know if ATSF did rebuilding work for other roads? Ditto for IC/ICG’s Paducah shops, though a lot of their rebuilds ended up on other roads.
Did BNSF actually rebuild these units themselves or did they higher a contract shop to do it? I know they have a lot of work done by companies like CEECO and NRE.
According to someone on the locophotos forum, the rebuilds are being done by BNSF’s Topeka shop and at Relco in Albia, IA.
I have 2 different editions of the 2nd Diesel Spotters guide which have fairly comprehensive info on both Railroad and contractor rebuilding programs up to that point (late 80’s-very early 90’s) and I can’t find any reference to ATSF undertaking contract work. Of course there are a number of smaller RR’s that purchased ATSF- rebuilt locomotives once Santa Fe retired them. The CF7’s are a prime example…
IC/ICG definitely did contract work for other railroads before selling their rebuilding operations off to Precision National.
Normally these kind of ‘re-manufacturer’ jobs strips the prime mover job down and replaces the 567 ‘power packs’ with 645 ‘power packs’. Counterbalance weights on the crankshaft need to be changes(due to the change in mass of the new 645 power packs). A new electrical control system is usually installed as well(that ‘-3’ designation). Usually there is little or no increase in horsepower, as the same main generator is still used. The advantage is that they can reduce inventory of spare parts by standardizing on just 645 parts for these older engines. The 567 parts supply is getting pretty thin.
The 645 ‘power packs’ will drop into the 567 block because the ‘stroke’ is the same. Just the ‘bore’ in the power pack is different. Older 567B engines like in GP7’s many times are upgraded with a ‘BC’ kit, and then get the 645 ‘power packs’ as well. I think the BN ‘GP28’ program did this with a series of older GP9’s. They even got new ‘Sparten’ stype hoods/cab in the process. IIRC, that program raised the horsepower to something like 1800 or 1850 hp. The ‘GP39’ program that BN did with old GP30/35’s a number of years ago set the horse power to 2250, and added an upgraded electrical control system. This program sounds very similar.
The note about the GP30 electrical cabinet being thinner than the GP35 is true. However the new control systems offered have a lot smaller ‘foot print’ and will fit in the GP30 with no problem - witness the ex-BN ‘GP39’ program of over 10 years ago!
The market for a good ‘medium’ horsepower road switcher is strong. The ‘Big 2’ really have no offerings, and the jury is still out on the ‘Genset’ crowd. A lot of motive power departments are watching to see if the maintenence costs of the ‘3 sets of everything’ genset locomotives will becone maintenece hogs as they age. Th
[quote user=“jrbernier”]
Normally these kind of ‘re-manufacturer’ jobs strips the prime mover job down and replaces the 567 ‘power packs’ with 645 ‘power packs’. Counterbalance weights on the crankshaft need to be changes(due to the change in mass of the new 645 power packs). A new electrical control system is usually installed as well(that ‘-3’ designation). Usually there is little or no increase in horsepower, as the same main generator is still used. The advantage is that they can reduce inventory of spare parts by standardizing on just 645 parts for these older engines. The 567 parts supply is getting pretty thin.
The 645 ‘power packs’ will drop into the 567 block because the ‘stroke’ is the same. Just the ‘bore’ in the power pack is different. Older 567B engines like in GP7’s many times are upgraded with a ‘BC’ kit, and then get the 645 ‘power packs’ as well. I think the BN ‘GP28’ program did this with a series of older GP9’s. They even got new ‘Sparten’ stype hoods/cab in the process. IIRC, that program raised the horsepower to something like 1800 or 1850 hp. The ‘GP39’ program that BN did with old GP30/35’s a number of years ago set the horse power to 2250, and added an upgraded electrical control system. This program sounds very similar.
The note about the GP30 electrical cabinet being thinner than the GP35 is true. However the new control systems offered have a lot smaller ‘foot print’ and will fit in the GP30 with no problem - witness the ex-BN ‘GP39’ program of over 10 years ago!
The market for a good ‘medium’ horsepower road switcher is strong. The ‘Big 2’ really have no offerings, and the jury is still out on the ‘Genset’ crowd. A lot of motive power departments are watching to see if the maintenence costs of the ‘3 sets of everything’ genset locomotives will becone maintenece hogs as they age. There are basically
When you consider the great success that EMD had with the BL20-2 and that GE had with the Super-7 Series, it may not be unreasonable to say that the two major builders have no offerings in the intermediate horsepower range.
I agree that the EMD 710ECO program is interesting(and the new GEVO V6 as well). But both of these programs have been ‘re-motor’ on your old frame ideas that just have not sold very well in the past. It is good to see the KCS order. Maybe next year there will be enough orders to change my mind! EMD did something like 3 BL20 engines and GE produced something like maybe 10 ‘Super 7’ engines out of old cores. The track record for the ‘Big 2’ is not real good in this market. There is a higher profit margin when you build new. Rebuilding ‘cores’ is like ‘rehabing’ an old house. Unless you are going to put a lot of ‘sweat equity’ into it, you are paying professional labor rates to tear out the old stuff and install the new stuff!
Jim
The BL20-2 had pretty much a new body on the old frame. One of the GP22s reused the GP40 body, pretty much no external modifications. The 8-710 seems to bolt in place of the 16-645, with some extra room at the back. It appears to me that repowering with 710ECOs might be cheaper than the way they were doing things.