I am modeling a coal branchline run off a mainline in the transition period. I do not have space for a reverse loop on the branch… wondering how the steamers traveled back in the day. Would they have ever backed up the branch with empties to allow coming back down with loads? Diesels seem to be able to run either direction with out the need to turn…
Bart
A steamer would simply return tender first with the head brakeman riding the breeze on the tender as a second pair of eyes…This also holds true for transfer runs,urban locals etc.
Now,the mine run could make a reverse move up the mine branch with the caboose in “lead”.When they finish switching the mine the train would pull out normally.
A fun fact…Many locomotives had a portable back rest that the engineer would place sideways in the window so he could support his back during long reverse moves or yard switching.
Logging steam locomotives used to run forward going up the hills. That way the water in the boiler would cover the back of the firebox (slope sheets(?)) if it got low. So I would have to assume that other types of branches ran the same way.
In a lot of towns at the end of a branch line, there would be a turntable either arnstrong type where the crew would balance the engine on the table and the insert a pole in the table and push the engine around and turn it that way, Or the the turntable would be air operated with an air hose going fron the engine to a air driven moter, Open the angle cock and turn the engine that way and then closr the angle cock and move the engine off the table just a couple of other ideas Larry
Consider your “branchline” as just a longish spur and run your steamers backward one of the directions. If the grade is steep, a good practice is to have the locomotive back down. This assures the boiler water covers the crown sheet (top) of the firebox as long as the fireman does his job.
Mark
Larry,I know we been taught a steamer needs turned but,in real railroading that isn’t always true…Another excellent case of “Experts” gone wrong with their teachings…
The prototype didn’t worry to much about turning steam locomotives on short branch lines where space was at a premium…These turnless branch line will include mine branch lines,urban industrial branch lines and a branch line that may go only 3-5 miles.Of course transfer runs couldn’t be turned either.
If you’ve got a hankering to turn your loco at the end of the line and there isn’t space you can use a single ended tunnel on one leg like the Epee at on the Cascade line. Let the “rivet counters” mull that one.
Have fun, Rob
Revoir
Some times us rivet counters know more about operations then the average modeler especially if hes been studying rail operations for years…Some of us was railroaders as well.
KC wrote: A ‘light’ tender on a small locomotive such as a 4-6-0 almost empty of water would derail quite easily.
I don’t understand that especially when 0-4-0s and 0-6-0s would work a yard,passenger terminals or industrial areas with the engine facing the cars.
Then that doesn’t jive with transfer runs or urban locals either that returned tender first to the yard…
et
KC,I don’t know…That goes against all my long time research…
Even in my 9 1/2 years working as a brakeman I seen very little debris on the track.
Of course that may not hold true in modern times or larger cities but,still there wasn’t a turn table at the end of every branch.
I never heard of any rule forbidding a locomotive without a rock plow operating in reverse especially when many locomotives isn’t equipped with plows on both ends.
As often happens it model railroading, it kinda comes down to whether you’re asking “was it ever done this way” vs. “was it common to do it this way”?
There certainly were plenty of situations where steam engines had to go in reverse on a branchline. However, it’s also true that many of the railroads that bought first generation diesels bought them to work on branchlines, because it allowed them to remove the small (often “armstrong” powered) turntables at the end of the branch.
So yes, steam engines did sometimes have to run up or down a branch in reverse…but it was less common than it would be later for a diesel running on a branch.
Stix,My studies showed that urban locals,transfer runs and mine runs reverse moves was very common…The majority of the regular branches showed a arm strong turntable or wye.In the later years some branch lines was abandon beyond a given town or mile post…A reverse move was made.The longest I recall reading about was C&O’s Kinny Branch in Lewis County Ky.In 1937 a flood damage a bridge and was never repaired because this branch was breathing its last gasp of air.The reverse move was 17 miles long.The branch was abandon in early 1941.
I think it is agreed that in some places, especially where the branch was short, the steam engine would run tender first in one direction. This might be going in, or on the return leg, but it would be consistent every trip…
As one person pointed out, where steep grades were involved the engine might be oriented so it was going forward in the uphill direction to keep the crown sheet covered.
Another reason to prefer a specific orientation is more subtle. Remember that this is before the use of radios for switching became normal, so it was all done with hand signals. Geometry in many yards had a definite side where the brakemen and conductors would do much of their work. It might be where all the switchstands were on a ladder, or curvature limited vision on one side. If possible the engineer would want to be on the side where he could see the hand signals directly, rather than getting them relayed verbally from the fireman.
Someone questioned the likelihood of objects on the track. In flat and rolling terrain not much will fall on the tracks, but in bigger mountains not all the rock and soil is attached to the hillsides as firmly as one might desire. Freeze/thaw cycles, or heavy rains, can cause some of the slope to end up on the track. An engine may be heavy enough to burst through, but freight cars and coaches, and half empty tenders, are more likely to rise up and derail. (Similarly, if spotting cars on a siding which is covered with snow drifts it is sometimes best to first go in with the locomotive to break a trail, and then push the cars in.) More widespread these days is the possibility of finding trees across the track after storm winds. In the steam era the right-of-way was kept a lot clearer but today the trees are really close. Finally, especially in urban areas, foreign objects find their way onto the tracks. Most are light enough not to cause much problem, but I wouldn’t want to chance standing nea
thank you all for the input…I have some info on the area that I’m modeling but it referenced the yard features on the mainline more so than the actual branch run. I am just getting started so trying to do the best to be accurate in my little world without counting the rivets as you say.
I appreciate your responses.
Bart
The quintissential coal branch operator, N&W, routinely backed Y and Z class articulated locos the length of the branch, either inbound or outbound. The front end brakeman had no problem with watching where the tender was going, since the doghouse gave him a perfect view.
Tender-first operation was usually speed-limited - but that was not very pertinent on branchline tracks that had been laid out using a snake for a straightedge, or with locomotives that weren’t exactly speed demons in forward operation.
I suspect, but can’t prove, that the direction of the backing movement was probably governed by the track arrangement at the end-of-the-branch colliery, for the reasons Brakie stated above.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with coal route locos that are never turned)