Internal routes in a single DS64 will work without the Loconet, but if you need to include a turnout controlled by the second DS64 then you need a loconet connection. If you want really cool, get a Locobuffer-USB from RR-CirKits, and also a serial cable. The Locobuffer-USB connect to the DS64’s, the serial cable connects to the NCE command station. Download the free JMRI software. Now you can program without any controller gymnastics, and set up virtual control panels to operate the turnouts, and other goodies.
You can still have routes that use turnouts connected to more than one DS64 by setting them up in the NCE command station; however, you would have to trigger them through the command station(using a throttle,Mini Panel, or PC). If you want routes triggered by the DS64 inputs to span more than one DS64, then you will have to setup Loconet for the DS64s to talk to each other.
OK awesome, sounds like I can get routes to work either way. I would prefer to just use the NCE throttle to trigger the routes. Is there anything else I need to do this, and is it easy to setup?
I would also like to use the JMRI software to program the locos, so I’ll need the USB Serial connection. Or do I use the JMRI software to program the routes as well, and trigger them with the NCE throttle?
I’m sure glad all you guys well experienced with all this stuff, I would be lost in the forest. LOL
Short answer is no. You should get the cable that connects your NCE system to the computer to program locos.
Locobuffer will only allow you to connect the computer to those DS64’s.
BTW, those DS64’s can be connected together but for them to share routes you would also need to add termination to them. That can be assembled with a couple of parts from Radio Shack.
Best advice is to join both the NCE and Digitrax Yahoo groups. You will recognize the same knowledgable faces from here as well as others. There is one gentleman that has already installed a dual system like the one you are installing. There is also a wealth of information that is store in the files and photos sections of those (and other) groups.
Long answer - yes, that’s what the OTHER serial cable is for - to connect the computer to the NCE. The programming is not done through the Locobuffer, that’s for talking to Digitrax command stations (or other Loconet devices). The connection to the NCE command station allows you to use the computer to program through the NCE system.
To just use NCE to do the routes, look up the section on creating ‘macros’ in the NCE manual. That will allow you to send a string of turnout control commands on the track bus with a single command. You wouldn;t need any connection to the DS64 other than to the track power for that to work.
You don’t need a loco-buffer to connect the PHP to your computer that has JMRI. If your computer has a serial port then all you need is a serial cable. If the PC doesn’t have a serial port then you’ll also need a USB to serial converter. There is no additional hardware needed to connect your PHP to your PC. Yes, you can use it to also program locos.
So there will be two USB connections to the PC.
1.) USB-Serial to PHP
2.) Loco-buffer USB PC to the DS64s
Then the DS64s daisychained with loconet cables connecting to the Loco-buffer?
PC can know talk to the DS64s on loconet.
The run JMRI software, create the routes that can now control let’s say 6 turn-outs all at once. Then how does the NCE Cab control/trigger those routes created in JMRI? with Macros?
With all this setup, do I have to have the PC on while running the layout using the NCE Cab throttle?
You do not need any loconet connections or a Locobuffer if you use NCE Macros. The computer would not have to be on.
If you DO hook up a Locobuffer and Loconet to the DS64’s, you need to power them from the aux power, not the track - if powered from the track they see 2 command stations and get confused. They see the NCE via the track, and the Digitrax via the Locobuffer. In this case the computer would have to be on because the only way to control the turnouts would be via a JMRI PanelPro panel. This gets into what I alluded to in the first post after Silver Pilot said to ditch Digitrax - you can press buttons all day on the NCE throttle and the computer will never see what you are doing. It won’t know you are telling a certain turnout to throw, and then be able to act on that information (like by then sending a signal on the Loconet to operate the DS64s). What you CAN do it buy the NCE Macro Panel and use buttons on your control panel or fascia to activate macros that control whichever turnouts you need - the DS64 will respond to standard DCC accessory decoder commands issued on the track bus from the NCE system. No Loconet connections needed, no computer needed. If all your turnouts are controlled by stall motor machines like the Tortoise, it might be oire cost effective to return the DS64s and get NCE Switch-Its or Switch-8’s - cheaper and simpler on a per turnout basis because they ONLY work with stall motors and they don’t provide all the other options of the DS64 like crossing gate control.
When I was running NCE wireless I just used Lenz LS150 turnout controllers (each one will control up to 6 turnouts). All routes were just controlled with the NCE throttle with no computer connection needed. The LS150s do require a separate power supply and I just used an old DC power pack for that.
The serial connection from NCE to the computer would just be needed to run JMRI for programming locos.
For one wanting to use the throttle for turnout control, this seems to be the simplest setup. I assume that DS64s could be used instead of the LS150s but the 150s would be more economical.
LS150’s are probably the cheapest decoders for solenoid machines. They don’t do very well with Tortoises because they cut off power after a certain amount of time. And as I discovered helping a friend install them on his layout, if you set it so it delivers power for 5 seconds, during that 5 seconds it will NOT accept another switch command.
So: Stall motors, NCE Switch-It or Switch-8 (Switch-It allows connection of pushbuttons so you can operate fromt he panel or fascia instead of trying to dial up switch addresses on the throttle)
Solenoid machines, like Atlas and Peco: Lenz LS150.
I’m not a fan of all this mixing and matching. I would have waited for the replacement Digitrax piece. Failing that, I would have taken everything back and bought a new total system in the brand of your choice.
Why not? That’s the whole reason there is a DCC standard. I use NCE Switch-Its with my Digitrax system. I also use home built accessory decoders and servo controllers from Tam Valley. What about decoders? Do you only use decoders made by your system manufacturer? I don’t use ANY Digitrax decoders, I find TCS to be superior and NCE decoders are great for basic non-BEMF decoders - at $12 each you can’t beat them.
Lots of people prefer the NCE controller but realize the Digitrax Loconet is a superior bus for detection and signalling, and so combine both systems. The additional cool thing about Loconet is there are devices made by many manufacturers besides Digitrax that work with Loconet - Team Digital, CML, RR-Cirkits and others all make certified Loconet devices, so you’re not limited to just the things Digitrax makes.
i think they are cheapest cos they don’t have a built in CDU for twin coil machines!! if you have some turnouts that are ‘sticky’ without a CDU you could have some issues. with stall motors what you can do with the 150’s is try and make sure a route doesn’t have more than 2 turnouts connected to any one LS150. it may mean a few longer wires in places but careful planning could help the slowness aspect if using stall motors…
Initially I want to operate just 9 of my twin-coil switch machines only from my NCE throttle, either individually or via routes using the NCE macros.
Could I do this with (3) DS44 connected together with (2) Loconet cables, and including a PS14 power supply, and with only one of the DS44 connected to the track?
Do you really mean DS44’s? Those are for stall motor’s only and they do not have a loconet connection. They get commands and power only through their red and black track connections.
I assume you mean DS64? The DS44 is a basic stationary decoder for Tortoises.
THEORETICALLY this would work, however if the ONLY source of routes in NCE macros, there is no need to make the Loconet connections. You’d also need soemthign to provde Loconet ‘termination’ since the DS64 can’t do this. It’s really just a current source, you could build one, or else you’d have to use a Loconet device in the chain that can, like the BDL-168 block detector. The only reason you’d need a Loconet connection would be if you wanted to program routes int eh DS64 that included turnouts connected to a different DS64 - if you do all the routes via NCE Macros then just connect each DS64 to the track and assign addresses. The Macro can operate turnouts on any combination of stationary controllers, so for example Macro A could operate the turnotu on port 1 of DS64 #1, the turnouts on ports 3 and 4 of DS64 #2, and the turnout on port 2 of DS64 #3, all at once.
I believe you also need the aux power to utilize the capacitor discharge supply built in to the DS64. With twin coil motors I’d also think one PS14 per DS64 rather than try to share.
Thanks Randy. Yes, I meant DS64. So, for me, it looks like (3) DS64 and (3) PS14 would do the job. Or, I could use (2) Lenz LS150 and one old DC power pack with AC accessory power available. This might be better as I would only need to use one electrical outlet for the power supply.