If you think seeing sparks flying from the wheels of your locomotives is a cool effect, stay with the brass. Otherwise, go with nickel silver.
LOL, I never have sparks flying from my brass tack, dirty track does that!
Dirty track of ANY type will do that.
T:
I don’t really know. I should start taking notes. If there’s any factor at all, it’s not something immediately noticeable, like 2:1 would be.
My most dirt-prone track is actually a stretch of NS at the back of the layout. When locos start to stumble, I run my Masonite slider car for a while, and it invariably cures it, unless I’ve overoiled a loco and left greasy spots somewhere. I think I clean track less than once a month, wiping all of it with an alcohol-damp rag. My RR is in a very dusty 1910 basement with bare joists for a ceiling.
N.B. I did find that my NS track, which had been stored a long time, drew sparks until I cleaned it. I don’t know if this was due to oxide or just plain dirt, or both. I do wonder about the whole conductive-oxide thing. It seems to me that brass is an alloy of copper and zinc, and NS an alloy of copper, nickel, and zinc, and with zinc and copper being the more reactive of these three metals, you’d think any oxidation would be similar. I can’t say I’ve ever seen a conclusive, controlled test done to prove the oxidation theory.
You are right about the alloy content of NS.
Some posters on here will even tell you it’s the electrical contact between the loco wheels and the track that causes the dirt, in my opinion, it’s just a tiny amount especially when I just laid 30 feet of brand new flex track and happend to clean it before any current or loco was run on it and it was filthy, brand new never used as I stated in a previous post.
All metals oxidize, some faster than others, they call it oxidation, whether it’s indoors, outdoors, in stormy weather and fair. Though the least oxidation is indoors in a warm dry envirionment. Hey I used to even polish my moms sterling sliverware dinnerware, yes even gold gets some tarnish.
Now I stored my train “stuff” for like 30 years, all the metal track. It was stored in basements, garages (unheated), and out buildings the steel ones you put together yourself, and after that length of time, it was all corroded, NS, brass, the steel only somewhat, not as bad as the other 2, and surprisingly no rust. I was going to dump it all, but thought of the dollar amount. It was no small layout on a 4x8 sheet of plywood. I wound up cleaning it with wd 40 and scrub pads, over 40 turnouts and switches all coroded. But by using a lubricate with the scrub pad, it did not scratch, if it did I would have spent the thousand dollars or so and replaced it.
Geeez I see posters on here who put brass track out to the curb. Heck email me I’ll be glad to send you the postage for your brass track, brass turnouts and brass switches, if you would send it to me, shucks I’d even give you a fair dollar price for it as long as it’s in one piece and not all broken up! Jim
RR:
Arcing does happen, especially on dirty track (whee, sparks) and it can cause pitting, which can potentially trap dirt and cause further arcing, et cetera, and of course oxidation can occur too. I just wonder if it’s the real cause here.
Linn Westcott thought so, and he was often right, but I don’t remember reading what his source was, and I can’t find any information on just how NS oxidizes.
Steel rail is generally galvanized, I think, which is why it doesn’t rust much - some of mine did have rust near the ends, but most of
Range rover: Some great information on the technical end of tracks(at last) It would seem many N/S fanatics use it but do not really know the difference between brass & N/S. N/S track must be cleaned also, and probably more than many people think it should be. Very interesting about non-use of abrasives and the 40 year old brass track will testify to that.
T:
It is good information. I emailed Atlas to see if I can get any more. Maybe they’ll write back. I really would like to get to the bottom of this - when something works well for some people, and terribly for other people, there’s often a solidly scientific reason for it. Maybe it’s the comparative hardness; maybe the NS grade used really does corrode less, and corrosion is a problem in some areas where dust isn’t. I do have to admit that the conductive-oxide claim doesn’t make much sense to me.
I just feel that we sometimes tend to repeat assertions whose roots have been forgotten, and sometimes it’s good to find them again.
These are my experiences having lived in a variety of climates and locales, thanks to Uncle Sam’s frequent relocation program.
Track environment has everything to do with rate of oxidation. Humidity, heat, and quantity of corrosives and salts in the air all significantly increase the rate of oxidation. At sea, and Houston area are some of the worst places for trying to keep brass clean. The nickel content of nickel silver (and stainless steel) tremendously slows the rate of oxidation, and makes oxidation less visible (compared to brass and steel).
Coatings on all metals serve to reduce oxidation by limiting oxygen access to the metal surface. A very thin film of oil (or NoOx) or even WD-40 (which is not a lubricant!) can slow the rate of oxidation. But the very best way to get rid of oxidation is through polishing - the finer the abrasive, the better. That is how most metal polishes work. Natural polishing - from using a bulldozer blade in piles of sawdust to metal wheels on rails - also works well. Polishing also smooths and hardens the surface, reducing the ability of oxygen to react with the metal.
In railroading, the heavier the force on the wheel rolling on the rail, the more the polishing will occur. The prototype does nothing, but if the track is used at all, the rolling surface is kept clean of oxidation. Similarly, our G scale brethren knock the oxide off their brass rail pretty quickly because of the weight of their rolling stock. At the HO level, metal wheels on weighted cars do better than plastic wheels on non-weighted cars - but the results aren’t always as clear cut. Smaller than HO scale generally doesn’t have enough weight to break down brass oxide.
I found even in Northern Viriginia with no air conditioning running HO trains around a brass rail oval about 10 times twice a week was sufficient to keep the track from oxidizing. My remaining problems with oxidation were the wheels an
Both works equally well…
As far as cleaning brass track there seems to be a overkill when it comes to cleaning NS track and that leaks over on brass track.
.
Hi!
My early HO layouts were in basements and had brass track. Between the environment and the fact that brass oxides rather quickly (in that environment) and the oxide does not conduct electricity, track cleaning was a regular chore.
My current layout is all nickel silver and located in a spare bedroom and of course climate controlled. Track cleaning is now an every 3 months or so chore.
Mobilman44
Thats a good idea Robby P leave it in the box and go with Nickel! in the long run you wont have that many headaches. Beside ya want to run trains and not alot of MOW. Kevin
If it is new brass and you can’t afford to get the NS then use it…BUT don’t put it where it is not easily accesable. Otherwise your layout will look like and eathquake and tornadoes hit with every cleaning. If you upper deck is the easiest to get to use it there. If it is old brass use it for abandoned trackage, or melt it down and make something usefull out of it. I used some to cast a model of a civil war cannon.
Don’t be afraid to use your good brass track. I have well over 500 feet of brass down on my layout and have not had any problems and have been running DCC for the third year now. “They” - said it could not be done! The only time looks plays a part is when you join brass and NS together in an open plain view area. As for the brass turnouts, I have had more trouble with the NS turnout for a reputable company than brass, however I use a power routing relay at all turnouts to be sure the point are powered. The color of brass is a lot more natural (when viewed alone) than the NS in my opinion. As for the cleaning, I give it a good cleaning (not scrubbing) once a year. As the layout is basically idel during the summer from April through September, it is cleaned before running trains in the fall. Aftert that, every time I run a train I simply put a pad car with 50-50 denatured alcohol and window cleaner in front of the first engine and start running trains. The pad cleans the dust off and that is all that is required. I only clean engine wheels about once a year. Some engine have run for two years now without have the wheels cleaned. My layout is not in a fully controlled invironment, only heated during the winter. I keep it at 50 when not in use and 65 when I am running trains. So, is brass as good as NS? I guess that is up to each person own feelings. If they don’t like brass they will all kind of problems with it. But when it comes down to ‘is it as good’, the answer is a very deffinate YES!
Most here who say brass is trash, never used brass track and are only echoing what “they” are saying. Brass is good, clean it properly and you will not have problems, I never did. I use brass exclusively on my outdoor G scale layout, it’s been running for 7 years in all weather and apart from a cleaning every 3 or 4 months, I’ve never once had a track related problem, ever. I can only imagine how much more solid and reliable brass would be on a protected indoor layout, free from the effects of weather and animals.
Brass weathers to a very realistic brown-black, is easy to solder, and judging from the responses, it can be picked up at a number of model railroader’s homes for free. So free, reliable track- what’s not to like? If I could still get a reliable source in my area (I just checked the trash cans in my area and nobody threw out track this week) I would use it without hesitation.
Nickle Silver. I use it exclusively on my “N” scale layout. I had brass on my HO layout in Michigan and had many more problems in keeping it clean.
The discussion jogged my memory to the early 1950’s when, as a teen-ager I started my first HO layout. The only rail available was steel…Black steel. At least it was black when it was new. It was very realistic in no time, as it began to “grow” a coat of rust. Needless to say it required a special kind of regular maintenance, After the Korean War, brass became readily available and as I could afford it the steel was replaced.
I will probably just go with nickel. Good points have been made. I have the brass, and I need to go through it. See what I can sell, and put that towards the new track.
Maybe it’s the comparative hardness
I would just like to talk a little about metal hardness. When you work metal it hardens whether it’s being pulled through a series of dies or heated and formed with pounding such as making horseshoes. When you bend a piece of wire to break it, you are in a manner softening (annealing) it at the point of bend through heat via friction, then cracking and breaking. When you work metal to metal you are in essence hardening it. When you apply heat you are annealing (softening) metal and when you then apply force with another metal object you are immediately hardening it, but another phenomenon occurs, it will begin to crack, tiny microscopic cracks by overworking it. A good example is as follows.
I am a competitive high power rifle shooter and shoot a considerable amount of ammunition in my target rifles with practice and shooting in matches. LOL both Model Railroading and the shooting sports are expensive hobby’s. As a competitive shooter, I like to keep my shot groups under a minute of angle. When I shoot a match we shoot rapid fire strings of 10 rounds in 60 seconds twice at 200 yards and twice at 300 yards in 70 seconds and then 22 rounds of slow fire at 600 yards in 22 minutes. That is an extreme of heat and hardening. The flash for that milliseconds in a rifle chamber is equivalent to approx 2,000 degrees and the pressure built up by the gas is over 15000 lbs per square inch. After approximately 3,000 rounds, I start to lose the minute of angle and need to replace the barrel. Inside the forcing cone on the barrel just where the lands and groves begin, it hardens and wears to the point where you can actually see cracks. My gunsmith has a piece of a rifle chamber that he cut lengthwise and you would not believe the amount of cracks you see with a magnifying glass. I also load my own ammo and during the process of shooting and reloading the same hap