Are there any photos of the Leader available on-line?
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Thanks for posting the link Matt. A fascinating story. They were obviously pushing the envelope, to use an aerospace expression.
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On a fair number of the threads on this forum, there is news of yet another train hitting yet another car at a grade crossing.[V] As I understand it, level grade crossings (for autos over railroad tracks) are much less common in Britain(?) Could one of you Brits expand on that subject a little? Thanks
Yes, for a picture of the first Leader on one of its outings, see:-
http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/leader/leader.htm
With regard to the D600 Warships, some time ago there was a letter from a former North British employee which suggested that originally 30+ D600’s were to have been ordered. But problems with the first one and the fact that the D800 Warships had a much better power to weight ratio resulted in the order for D600s being cut to 5 locos and instead NB got an order for some D800’s using the MAN engines originally ordered for the D600’s.
Talking of North British , I understand most of the MAN engines used in the diesels they built were built by NB themselves under licence. But I read somewhere that after NB went bust the Scottish Region bought some genuine German MAN engines to try and make the D6100 class more reliable. Can anyone confirm this? In due course some of the D6100’s were rebuilt with the same Paxman engines that had been tried out in D830. But I believe the D6100 that got into to Barry scrapyard was one that was not re-engined.
I just checked my copy of “The Diesel Impact on British Rail” by R M Tuffnell, published by MEP (the Institution of Mechanical Engineers) regarding NBL and MAN. It doesn’t actually say that the ScR bought German engines but it does say that they had much more difficulty with corrosion than the WR, so it follows that they would need new crankcases which would only be available from MAN themselves. Whether they bought complete engines or assembled them from German parts the result is the same. It is indicated that the Blue Pullmans always had German built engines. NBL built 33 D800s. This was easy because the original V200 had been designed to take either the Maybach or MAN engines interchangeably.
The D6100s rebuilt with the Paxman Ventura (An official Royal Navy report said the best feature of the Ventura was th
Level crossings are not uncommon here - the main difference is that all main line ones here have to have lights and barriers, so ending up on the tracks is difficult. There’s an interesting situation near me where a narrow-gauge steam railway has just the flashing lights while the standard gauge main line next to it has both lights and barriers. I’m not sure that it’s a cultural thing - I see plenty of idiots who take no notice of their surroundings when on foot or in a car so I suspect the barriers prevent a higher accident rate.
The particularly sad part is that narrow gauge lines don’t have to have barriers but face the same risks. The difference being that a full-size loco will usually shrug off an impact while the narrow gauge will be seriously damaged along with the crew. The Romney Hythe and Dymchurch Railway (they use 15in gauge large-scale replicas of full size locos) have lost two loco drivers in recent years due to people ignoring the crossing lights.
PS: Was the leader hand fired or mechnaically stoked by that poor blessed fireman?
How did the driver and the fireman communicate - electro-mechanical telegraph?
I’m not sure, but one of the pages on the Semg website talks of blow-back being a risk which would suggest to me that it was hand-fired, as a mechanical stoker would usually have a cover plate of some sort surely? As for how the crew communicated I have no idea - something like a ship’s telegraph would seem to be in order but there’s no mention of such a thing. They may have relied on hand signals or whistle signals to co-ordinate.
Any particular,mechanical reason that this locomotive took on this sort of bread loaf shape,instead of a more traditional steam locomotive look? Thanks
Bullied was trying to disguise it as a diesel as he could see that steam was on the way out and wanted something modern looking…
I’m fairly sure the D6100 that got in to Barry scrapyard still had the discs, so it would have been an unrebuilt.
Ah the Blue Pullmans - I remember seeing them at Paddington when I was very young. We also had two Tri-ang OO guage models - one in the original Nanking Blue and one in the later BR Corporate Pullman livery (ie reverse blue and grey).
I have a set of model Blue Pullmans in the later scheme. I remember seeing them in storage at Old Oak Common, and riding in the prototype HST in those colours. I prefer the original colours, particularly before the yellow ends, but I never saw them like that. They were the first “modern” train, at least the first after the late 1930s.
M636C
Re. Leaders.
My memory was awakened by the article re-produced by the SR group. I believe the shape was inspired by the early ppost war electric main line loco’s.
Their power to weight ratio was phenominal, but unreliability and their tendency to cook the fireman and melt his shovel (they were hand fired) meant extended trials did not happen nor were any conclusive results achieved.
John B.
John: I don’t quite understand the statement about th enfiremanand his shovel. Can you explain? Thanks
Murphy Siding - I think I can explain. On the Leader loco the fireman worked in a central cab, and had to hand fire. Even in winter the fireman’s cab got intolerably hot. During a summer heatwave the crews simply refused to work the Leader. As for communication between driver and fireman, I do not know how this was meant to be done.
On the turf burner built in Ireland, both driver and fireman worked in a central cab which took advantage of the more generous loading gauge in Ireland (Which results from their wider gauge, 5’ 3") which had lots of (openable!) windows.
Thought was given to converting the Leader to oil firing (it could have used waste oil out of automobile gearboxes etc) but this never happened. Mechanical fiiring was also consider and a mechanical stoker was fitted to a Merchant Navy Pacific loco. But this needed finely ground coal and the dust from this got into passenger cars and upset passengers, particularly Pullman cars (which the Southern had a lot of!) so this was soon abandoned too.
This communication riddle is interesting and all I can immediately assume is that it was done by bells, in the same way that Autotrains, Railmotors etc. used to work.
Was the fireman totally enclosed? A fireman needs to either know the road or be guided by the driver, so how did the fireman know where he was?
Ah. No, the fireman was’nt totally enclosed and we can see him in thrash position in Matt’s link.
Posted first, checked later. Sorry chaps!
Interesting read, thanks for the link. If i read that correctly, the driver was in front, then the boiler,firebox, fireman and the tender. What would be the advantage of putting all this into one unit, verses a locomotive and a tender? Thanks
Hi Myrphy,
The leader was able to utilise its entire weight for adhesion hence its great power.
Simon answers most of your question and you have hit the rest with yiur note of the 17th. cooking the fireman and melting the shovel was due to my use of the English SOH to illustrate the point about the very high temperature endured by the poor tallow pot.
Now the communication? I wonder? My curiosity is aroused, more later!