Broadway Limited E7A, runs backwards only in 128 speed step mode?

Model Railroader Electronics and DCC
1

So I guess I’ll start out with system specs

NCE PH-Pro 5Amp

NCE ProCab throttle

BLI E7A DCC/Sound Item #2727 B&M 3807

Programmed locomotive on programming track. Entered short address of 3, Activated Long Address 6207.

Exited programming track mode, placed locomotive on the main

Locomotive functions normally in 28 speed steps.

Pressed 28/128 button on Procab.

Locomotive will only run in Reverese.

Placed locomotive on programming track. Programmed CV 8 to 8. Cycled power. Re-entered long address. Placed Locomotive on main. Runs normally in 28 step, reverse only in 128.

Programmed CV 29 to 34 on the main(OPS Programming mode). No effect. Called BLI, they told me to do the above steps. I told them I did that. They said it would be 10weeks for repair or they could send me a new decoder. They are sending me a new decoder next week.

Anyone have any idea if this is a programming error that i can fix myself?

2

Is the loco brand new, out of the box?

If not new, had it previously performed OK?

Rich

3

Try it when it’s on address 3 after a reset. If it still does the same thing, there’s something really screwy with the decoder. If it works after a fresh reset on the default address but not after you give it a different address, it’s likely something in the system or programming although the steps you list are correct. How about a DIFFERENT long address? Just make one up, like 1234. If THAT works - then you have a DCC system problem with the address you were trying to use, or one of the craziest bugs ever in the decoder.

–Randy

4

If it does this on “3”, definitely a decoder issue.

Basic question time: This is the only locomotive that does this, correct? If so, my vote is decoder problem. But, if others are also behaving this way, it might be a throttle issue… Or even a system issue.

We do know, based off of item number, it is the Paragon 2 version, so, only one decoder. That eliminates the dual decoder issues that the Blueline units have.

But, until further conflicting information is provided, I would say it’s a bad decoder.

5

Yes it is very new, straight out of the box. I ordered it through my LHS and it arrived last week from the manufacturer. I will attempt running it on short address 3 after a reset as suggested, but I own other paragon 2 locomotives and none have this issue.

6

Well, if it is new out of the box, it sounds like a faulty decoder. Since BLI is sending a new decoder, you will find out soon enough.

Rich

7

CV8 = 8 is reset for Tsunami IIRC. (If I Recall Correctly) not QSI or Paragon 2

8

Paragon 2 reset is also CV8=8.

Rich

9

Yep, I looked it up in the manual before I did it. Something I always do before I try to do anything with decoders.

10

New decoder arrived yesterday, will update when I get the time to drop it in.

11

Anxious to hear the result.

12

Installed decoder. Noted that factory long address default was 3 digits. (Is this a limitation or a CV I need to change?) Programmed to long address 6207 (modular club prefix plus last 2 digits of locomotive number). Same problem. Switched to short address 3. It works in both directions on 128 speed steps. Will try different long address in the morning. And attempt 28 speed steps for arguements sake.

Also would like to note that BLI does not use an 8 pin or 9pin or even a 21 pin plug, but 6 different size plugs with no standard wire coloring and anywhere from 1-4 wires in a plug, so I cant easily put in a different decoder without completely stripping this thing apart to trace wires. Somewhat annoyed [banghead]

13

It’s an OEM design, so they do their own thing. So did the OEM QSI decoders in older BLI locos and also Atlas and anyone else that used them. Their Paragon series decoders are also OEM proprietary, only used in their locos and not sold seperately, so I guess the have no real reason to use a 8, 9 or 21 pin connections. MTH Protosounds locos are much the same inside.

Now several OEMs have standardized on ESU’s 21 pin motherboard - Atlas, Bowser, and Intermountain.

–Randy

14

Also note that the problem still exists.

15

Except now it DOES work on address 3. Is there a way to reset a PowerPro command station? I suspect some weird internal setting for that specific address is messing it up. Or try another random long address, like 1234. If that works - it’s the system, not the decoder.

–Randy

16

For what it’s worth, the board I pulled from a BLI diesel, if I recall an F-7, the pin outs were pretty clearly marked. The pair for the speaker were pretty obvious.

You can see headlights, F anode, F cathode R cathode, R anode on the left plug.

Motor — and + then Track — and + on the remainders.

Is yours so marked? Maybe BLI uses several suppliers but it shouldn’t be too difficult to sort out the wiring.

Good Luck, Ed

17

No, and that was only a side gripe.

Update,

Programmed the locomotive to 1234, it works.

Next I tried a higher 4 digit number, 6000, it works as well.

Tried 6207, still doesnt work.

Next 6307, works. Which is where I will leave it for the moment. Next I chose at random a locomotive to test whether the command station is functioning improperly. Picked an Proto 1K RS2 with a NCE D13SRJ. Programmed it to 6207. It headlights turned off and on but no motor control. I programmed it back to its original address 6202, and one of my 9043MACs started rolling. Cause identified, the motor function on the decoder burned out by being held at a high speed stall current (removed decoder and re-installed dummy plug, tested sat on DC). [#oops]

Picked a second P1K RS2 with D13SRJ programmed to 6207. It ran correctly. Would my next step be to select a different BLI paragon 2 product and attempt to program to 6207?

18

Can you reset your DCC system? Sounds like you have that address mu’d or something. …or its selected on another throttle?

19

BMMECNYC, I hope you are sitting down when you read this.

I have a BLI E7, but it is a Paragon, not a Paragon 2.

So, instead, I selected a Paragon 2 steam locomotive, BLI Item No. 2204.

On the Programming track, I changed the long address to 6207. Put it on the mainline and ran it forward. Fine. Ran it in reverse. Fine. Pressed the 28/128 button on my NCE ProCab once, speed setting now 128. Tried to run it forward, it went in reverse. Tried to run it in reverse, it went in reverse. How does that grab you?

So, I put it back on the Programming track and changed the long address to 6208. Put it on the mainline and ran it forward. Fine. Ran it in reverse. Fine. Pressed the 28/128 button on my NCE ProCab once, speed setting now 128. Tried to run it forward, it went forward. Tried to run it in reverse, it went in reverse. Go figure.

So, I hope that I have restored your sanity. I sure cannot explain it. Is it a bug in the Paragon 2 decoder? Probably. Has the long address 6207 have some special meaning or application on a Paragon 2 decoder? Who knows? Is it a quirk when an NCE PH-Pro is communicating with a Paragon 2 decoder. Doubt it.

I suppose I could try my Paragon E7A with the long address 6207. OK, I will.

Rich

Edit Note: I went through the same procedure described above with one of my Paragon E7A locomotives. Everything performed correctly when assigning the locomotive a long address of 6207, regardless of whether the speed setting was 28 or 128. So, it sure appears to be a quirk with the Paragon 2 locomotive. Hopefully, others with Paragon 2 locomotives will try this procedure to see if the problem is universal when assigning the long address of 6207.

20

Your issue now is in the system itself, since another loco on the desired long address ALSO does not operate properly, but the suspect loco works fine on a short address or different long address. Somehow the internal state for that long address have become scrambled in the command station. Check the manual, I know how to reset a Digitrax system but not NCE.

–Randy