I read the information that BLI is producing California Zephyr cars in HO scale.
They’ll likely be nice looking and very well detailed but, “WOW!”, the $64 price? [:0] That’s going to make a lot passenger train modelers (me too) say O U C H ! ! [B)] This is the price range of many brand new LOCOMOTIVES that are available from discount internet dealers. [:)][tup] My Proto 1000 New Haven RDC was only $45 brand new, and what a sweet runner it is! I hope that these BLI cars at least have a “metalized” paint finish.
The $34 price of the new Walther’s passenger cars doesn’t sound so bad anymore. Adding to that the Walther’s are available for $24 from some internet dealers of which I’ll be ordering several in the next month. [;)][:D][;)]
Anyone seen any pictures of the BLI cars or planning to purchase any?
I know that there are several California Zephyr fans and modelers on this forum as the prototype was a legendery passenger train. [swg][tup]
Recently Centralia car shops released a PRR P85BR pasenger car which was the car the RR chose as a coach for their long distance trains after WW2. IT is in the $55.00 range and got the same comments. However those forking over that sum claim and to a degree rightly so that it is superior to brass with indiviual grab irons and many under floor details. Some of us won’t pay that regardless and I am one of them. We are disturbed that we are paying someone to do somthing we enjoy. Namely assembling a kit. That a Chinese person is doing it beside is disturbing to others. Unfortunately when the manufacturers say limited run teh vast majority of us plunk down our money sight unseen and grab them as fast as they are imported. Until we wake up and stop doing this there is no reason for pricing to assume anything rational because eveyrthing sells out before it is even brought into the country. If we wnat lower prices we have to show restraint and not support them. Supply and demand is still the basic tenet of economics.
Remember when Athearn ‘shorty generics’ were so much more realistic than almost anything else suich as Varney & OK Herkimer(except possibly old Walthers kits). Then along came AHM/Rivarossi hw and smoothsided cars and they knocked our socks off. Was it more fun back then or are we obsessed and have to have the latest, greatest (and costliest) new ‘whatever’? I am going thru the agony of upgrading my roster and am having second thoughts about just how far that ‘upgrading’ process will go. I re-read some old articles (circa 1977 in RMC) detailing the balanced approach that Allen McClelland executed so effectively in his “Virginian & Ohio”. The key word is ‘balance’. The free-lanced, seemingly very real, V&O inspired me back in the ‘70s and it kinda jolted me back into reality this morning! I don’t want and certainly don’t need no stinkin’ $64. passenger cars. I’ll just kitbash all those old Athearn, Rivarossi, MDC & Spectrum cars to suit my needs. I am not implying that everyone should do the same-it’s just like every other hobby or pursuit-in that those who don’t choose to continue to strive for absolute perfection are often considered not up to the currently -in- vogue ‘standard’ by which to be judged. A lot of fuss is made about the ‘made in China’ thing; imagine what our goods would cost if they were made by union shops in the USA (and I mean no ill will towards labor unions)? Unfortunately almost everything, it seems, is now made in China or some other equally charming place. Now if Proto 2000 introduces a line of heavyweights I may have to reconsider the whole kitba***hing and wait 'til they’re available mailorder after the second release obsoletes the first batch and drives the price down! Like ‘ndbprr’ expressed - it’s supply & demand at work, and if one is patient, it can be in their favor.
Too rich for my wallet. I have Athearn, Bachman Spectrums, Rivarossi and IHC. All of which are vastly different from eacn other You can’t blame them for producing these cars being that their E7’s look awesome. I’m even interested in one of the E’s and i don’t think I would want something cheap quality being pulled by something as nice.
One could say the same thing about brass cars as well. I am always amazed at how much a brass caboose is when browsing through eBay. What could we possibly get on these cars that would justify the price? The name (BLI)??
Like it’s been previously stated, I too was surprised at how much the Walthers cars are, but from what I gather both on this forum and off it, the Walthers Super Chief cars aren’t a hard sell either.
This maybe off topic, but does it drive anyone else crazy how most new products are being anounced and then it’s months before anything is seem on the product. I don’t remember it being this way a few years ago…oh well.
Could it be that manufacturers are testing the market potential – if they get sold out by either dealers/LHS placing advance orders, or by modelers going nuts on forums like this, or bombarding the manufacturers w/ email and phone calls re: availability, then they guess that they have aa winner. After being away from the hobby for about ten years, I was surprised how much most everything has significantly gone up in price - could it be that with the surge in availability and variety of high-end , albeit outstanding, plastic models has allowed Athearn,. Atlas, and MDC, as examples, to raise the price, but not necessarily the bar, of the same stuff they have been selling for years, and also offering it as RTR at an even higher price? Charge what the market (us) will bear. . .
Great observation! While manufacturers deserve to make profits, it seems that our limits are being tested and based on our purchasing responses prices are established. Maximization of profits is the game.
I’ve noticed that some of the HO Atlas units of just a few years ago that were selling for $110 plus are now selling for $40 to $60 at some LHS’s and Discount Web dealers.
So it seems that waiting (as frustrating as it can be) can pay off, unless one is looking for a specific unit/paint scheme. My LHS still has Proto 2000 units that have been out of production two years! Prices are down to the $60-$84 range as they’ve been sitting on the counter for the longest.
I have no intrest in these new BLI passenger cars. $65-$70? WHAT? You are right, they pu***o cost limit to test us. I hope sales for them are very low and BLI learns a lesson.
It is nice to see road specific passenger cars come out in the main stream market (Walther’s Superchief, BLI Zephyr), but the prices are off the hook.
Fortunately for me, the California Zephyr cars don’t fit my locale or era. I am curious about the price increase over their just released heavyweights. The heavyweights, which I think are beautifully done, list for $39.00 each . I think that’s pretty pricey, but they are very nice. The Zephyr cars are going to go for $64.00 each. I think it’s going to be hard for them to be that much better to justify the increase.
On a related issue, their “powerhouse series” heavy mike lists for $229.00. They have announced a “paragon series” light mike with a suggested retail of $299.00. As far as I know, the main difference between the two will be more separately applied piping on the light mike. I really like their 2-8-2 heavies, but for that difference I think I’ll stick with my reworked Genesis light 2-8-2’s. I think three bills is just more than I’m willing to pay.
Tom Watkins
I have found pleasure in the Walthers passenger cars, limited though they are in scope. I mean,you can buy 2 or 3 for the price of one BLI car, in most of the major rr livery, decal on the different names (or numbers) which are appropiate for the car on your road. Then, you can add a couple of the Pullman pool cars. I model NYC, and need observations, too, which Walthers does not offer in the smoothside. But Eastern Car Works has a workable kit, and painting the NYC livery is not THAT hard. Then, if you want to expand the repertoire, you can get a moderate selection of Brass Car Sides. I have done one, and found it to be very convincing, again, it must be painted and decaled (decal sets from Champ). They are a little pricey, the side sets at about $28.oo, then add on an appropriate foudation kit, plus truck, wheels and couplers. But the result is sweet.
So for my money, I can get a pretty authentic smoothside car for NYC, for at the most $40.oo, along with the pleasure of building and painting, and STILL have change left over from the $65.00 BLI wants for a Zephyr car.
Rivarossi NYC cars are okay, but when you see their 4 car sets, and in one of them is an observation car, you know what you’re getting. Similarly with IHC.
Everybody,
My apologies for my error. The heavyweights I was talking about are, of course, Branchline’s. Brain fade must have kicked in early tonight. I will stand by my other comments though.
Tom Watkins
I hope that some of you that are complaining about the price of models go into business and discover that the cost of dies exceeds250,00.00 and there are also enviromental costs, labor costs, start up costs and import fees assessed by the US Customs office. By the time all is said and done, costs can exceed 1 million dollars.
just a thought. you have the right to complain. ’
Ch
I love the California Zephur. It’s the only American passenger train that I love to read about over & over again.
I’m almost tempted to get one of these cars, the “Silver Palace”.
I rode in this car on Algoma Central’s “Canyon Train” in 1998.
$70 US = almost $100 Canadian though.
I’ve had a hard time swallowing $50 Canadian for Walthers cars.
65 Dollars? Very nice, but no thanks. I am having hard time reconciling 99 dollar BLI stock cars that comes with the moos and squeals. Sorry folks, this is where I close my wallet.
Walther’s 30 dollar Passenger Cars are about the limit for me. Even at those prices I am carefully planning short consists. And the way these prices keep going up and up makes one appreciate the IHC, Riverossi or other brands of passenger cars that run about 7-10 each if that.
There will always be a market somewhere for anything in America. I once witnessed a nice passenger train on a club layout and asked about the cost. It turned out these cars were brass and the entire train was in the thousands of dollars. Definately not for the faint of wallet.
BLI’s pricing is a concern; a twelve car train will cost over $700.00 ! However, I do agree with psngrtn, manufacturing and distribution costs are high. There are other examples; Kadee boxcars are retailing for $35.00. One workaround is shopping with the discount retailers on the Internet and Ebay. Swap meets and train shows will showcase such merchandise eventually. This is where patience is truly a virtue.
Passenger cars have come a long way; I have several Athearn cars in my collection, along with Con-Cor and IHC. Recently I purchased several Walthers cars which in MHO are excellent but $39 per car on average is also hard on the wallet. But examine the detail and workmanship and it eases the pain
BTW some California Zephyr cars became part of the Auto-Train consist (as well as Amtrak)
Good for BLI. A mass-market manufacturer has finally decided to offer a complete passenger train.
The Rivarossi and Walthers cars are great individually, but those guys unfortunately took the Chinese-menu approach in selecting models to produce. You know, one from column “A” (Union Pacific), one from column “B” (Pennsy), etc. Result: it’s almost impossible to assemble a prototypical train consist. That’s even true of the Walthers “Super Chief”, unless WKW produces a post-war 4-4-2 “Regal” sleeper or an 11 double bedroom “Indian” car.
Kato and Walthers have proven that very accurate exterior and interior detailing can be achieved with today’s injection molding, and Athearn has shown we can get amazing stainless steel appearances. If the BLI cars meet that level of detail and appearance–and better yet, have appropriate window shades and interior painting–they’ll be well worth the prices they’re quoting.
I have recently bought 2 of Walthers dome cars. A D&H & a VIA.
I’ve also recently bought 2 IHC coaches for $15 ea Canadian, brand new
While these are not as nice as the Walthers cars, there are still pretty decent for the money.
I have a complete CP heavy weight consist from Athearn as well.
Again, not as nice as the Walthers, but pretty good for what I paid for them.
For $100 for one Braodway car I can buy 2 Walthers or a complete consist from IHC.
I’m going to pass on the Silver Palace
