OK, I made the jump to steam and I Love it! Started on the cheap and bought Bachmans GS-4’s DC only. With a little help they pull OK with weight added will pull a 15 car drag up a 2% grade. Big thumps up on the GS-4’s.
My Niagara on the other hand may be going back to K-10 trains. Seems the tender does not like the 18" turns, few that are left. Engine free running works great with no tender. Add tender, well, that the reason it is going back.
If the Niagara goes back, it will be used for a trade for a Broadway engine. I had a Broadway Niagara on layaway but we found out it needs a 21.5 turn, so I won’t be getting it. I think the reason it need’s that big of a turn is the same reason my Bachman Niagara is having problems, the tender.
I do not have a lot to spend, say $250.00 (did I say that?) max. That is with trade in.
Is the tender limted factor on the turns with a Broadway 4-8-4 can make? Bachmans drive wheels float from side to side so with no tender the Niagara runs great. Or are the Broadway drivers fixed so they don’t move?
I like this
Will this make it around the bench? Any other ideas?? I like the J1E-4-6-4 Hudson as well.
Any other ideas? If so if you could post PIC or links that would help a lot. Only engines I know by name is the GS-4’s and Niagara’s.
Personally, I would recommend staying away from the larger Northern (Niagara) or similar size engines if you have 18" inch curves. That N & W engine you have a picture of may make it around the curves, but don’t think it will like it very much…
If you’re interested in steam, and especially larger steam, I would go with a BLI Hudson or one of their Mikados. Both of those engines will make the 18" curves and are very nice. You probably could easily get one of those in the $150 range.
Also, if you’re looking to save some money, but still get a very nice steam engine, perhaps you could consider the Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0. It has very nice detail, and is very popular engine. Plus it goes for somewhere around $75 to $100 depending on where you go.
I have 3 of the BLI Hudsons and they are a great buy at Trainworld if still available at $130. I second the motion that large steam and 18" radius curves are not going to be very good friends. I would either broaden your curves or go with smaller engines.
I have one of the Mikes and it handles 16" radius turns…badly but it will go through them. We were playing with it on a switching portion of our club layout that is really only meant for small traction and 44tonners. But my mike was able to go through them.
Hey thanks for the answers and the links. Guess the main reason I still have the 18" turns is up till the Niagara all my engines could make the turn’s. With out adding any bench I can make 1 of the 18" turns 20" and the out side one 23". The other 18" turns are on passing sidings and spurs. Rest of the bench is 24 to 28 turns.
I think the main reason the Niagara tender will not nake the turns is the axels are way to tight. Front truck axels are all but locked up, rear are out of a linement and all will pick a turn out.
For what ever reason I do like larger engines, most of my diesel fleet are 12 wheelers.
I will see what K-10 trains have in the way of Spectrum clunkers, but would like to try a broadway. Any other ideas and thanks for the PIC!
Ken, don’t forget Outlet Direct at the BLI website. You’d be surprised at the moichendice there. Also, Tony’s will still sell you a wonderful Trix Mikado for $229. Ask Tom Stage, and me after Christmas, what the Trix steamers are all albout.
My advice: keep it small. The Mike would be a good choice witht he 18" radius curves. Larger locos will jus be frustrating. Trainworld has good deals on other BLI locos, if they have any left. Amazing how low you can get some of the earlier releases for. My father in law got the PRR M1a for $130 fromt hem, but that would probably be too big for the 18" radius curves. But the Mike was lower priced to begin with.
I have several of the Bachmann 4-8-4s running on the BRVRR. A Niagara, a N&W #611 and SP GS-4. In addition, I have two large BLI steamers, a 2-8-2 Mikado and a NYC Hudson.
While the outer main on the BRVRR is 22 1/2"-radius and the inner main 20 1/2" -radius, there are 18" curves on the reverse loop and the sidings. All of my big steamers navigate the 18"-radius turns and snap-switches on the BRVRR without trouble.
If your Niagara tender is having trouble with 18"-radius curves, the tight axles you mentioned, plus too-tight wheel gage may be culprit. One other thing to check, make sure there is enough clearance between the loco and the tender to allow it to ‘swing’ on the tight curves. My ‘Mike’ had this problem. I just enlarged the hole on the tender draw bar a little and the problem was solved.
With a little tweaking, I think you could make your existing locos run on your 18"-radius track. They may look a little strange, but they will run.
Well, it is offical, I am done with fiddling with the Niagara. It is in the box and off it goes to the Happy Hunting Grounds Yard at Bachman defects deparment.[:(!] I really want to make it work, only one I have failed at. Seems the rear trucks wheels will not stay in NMRA gauge on the 4-8-4. I pulled all but the rear axel on the tender and still picks the turnouts. Added weight and still of it goes.
But I am happy, play Bach’s, Brandenburg Concert No 2 in F-major. GS-4 Daylight is dragging a 14 car train. GS-4 War Baby has a team of BL-2’s has helpers dragging 51 cars at 30% thottle. First DCC unit is coming. Yes, I am in bless right now, all is right in my HO world and real world for now.
Don, I understand that it is a compermise (spell check) and so is life. But just like my life I take the bad and make it work as best as I can. I will dump the 18" turns Wendesday.
Now, if K-10 still has that 4-6-6-4 Challanger! [:)] Hum, I wonder if he got the Athearn Big Boy in yet. [:D]
Stayed tune to see what I drag home Wednesday. Oh, off the long hair stuff and doing some Joan Jett and the Blackhearts. Are band opned for them 20 + years ago. But that is a driffrent story.
http://www.broadway-limited.com/ will get you to Outlet Direct, but I see no Mikados there now. They show up often, so if you can sit on your hands for a few weeks, it will be worth it. However,
Both the BLI and Trix Mikes are very good runners and beautifully detailed. Here’s how I would rate the major pluses of each one:
Trix Mike:
Low end speed response - Even after the new QSI chip upgrade in the BLI and adjusting the Start Voltage (CV2), the Trix Mike beats it hands down. The Trix just crawls at speed step 001.
A “throttier” and more realistic chuff after speed step 015. The QSI sound, although nice, is too much on the treble end for my ears. The Loksound chuff comes out more like a “chaw-chaw-chaw-chaw”*.
It’s already wired for a smoke generator - I have no interest in using it, but all you need is to purchase one and you can “take up smoking” around your layout.
__*__Hear for yourself on ESU’s web site. Scroll down the page and click the file to the left of 82455 Mikado. You’ll then download a .zip file that contains the sounds. Even though it’s the newer Loksound 3.5v decoder, it should still sound pretty much the same.
BLI Mike:
Front headlight - More protoypical color. The Trix headlight is “orange” colored. [xx(] I haven’t found a way to replace it with a golden-white LED yet.
I agree with Crandell. Consider the Trix 2-8-2 Mike if you really want a well operating and beautifully detailed locomotive. (Besides, I won’t send you the E-Z Command until you do. [(-D])
Here’s the link for the Trix Mike on Tony’s Train Exchange web site:
Boy today was a tuff day! I went to K-10 Trains and it was busy, not with the normal customer’s that can pretty much help them selfs. But it was the Christmas I want a train under the tree crowed. Retuned the ill fated Niagara and asked Ken if he had the Athearn Big Boy, nope they ran out before they filled is order. did he have a Athearn Challanger, he did but said I did not want it, big pain in the caboose and will not stay on the rails. Plus the (soory I can not spell the word for dual drivers that piviot) will not pull well. That not what I have read but do I know?
Looked at Broadway’s, having my best intrest at heart he keep’t tell me no. Worst part was he was so busy, took 20 minutes between the no’s! I was to the point I was ready to walk out with nothing. I was a little PO’ed the fact he help so many people and left me sitting. But I all so under stood why so I got over it.
Ken all so keept telling me to get another GS-4. I have two, how many do I need? Now if they could be doubled headed I would have done it! But not ready to hack on them yet.
Finaly I picked a Bachman Spectrum 4-8-2 light moutain, it took 2 and half hours to do this buy. Hopped in the car and left, but I was bugged. I wanted to make the move to a real steam engine. I was getting ready to head to my real car reapir shop to beg some wheel weights so the 4-8-2 could drag 10 to 12 cars.
That is when I snapped, went around the block and back to K-10 trains. I am a little sick to my stomach right now, call it buyers remorse. It is still sitting in the car in fact. What if it will not work on the 18 turns? (Broadway says it will and Ken from K-10 said more than likely). I guess I am a pround owner of a DCC Quantum Sound N&W J 4-8-4 # 611.[banghead]
Wish me luck. I swore I would never spend over $150.00 for a engine. Most I have spent to date is $80.00 and tha
it’ll work - they said it would… if it doesn’t get them [BLI] for false advertizing[}:)]
I hope I don’t have the same problems as you Ken… I dug high and low for the operating specs of the B’mann Niagara & couldn’t find anything specific… other than they track “OK” on small curves… So i went ahead and commandeered one. now after seeing your troubles I’m kinda feeling it was a mistake… depending on how “small” my track decides to be, i have anywhere from 19 to 22" curves (currently… *%^$#@ sectional junk track)… hope it runs [#dots]
If not - guess it’s going to be a “shelf queen” until the club finishes enough of the layout so we can run trains. Well that, or the LHS is going to get a fair chunk of change from me when I get some EZ track (the “layout” I have is an on-the-(tile)floor oval). However, I do plan to start on a semi-permanent layout (it’s gotta come with me when I move out from my parents’ house in 2-3 years) that I can run it on.
I firmly believe that the key to enjoying steam is great track. No matter who makes your steamer, it’s bound because if its long rigid wheelbase to find any flaw in your track.
Unsecured sectional track is not going to tolerate steam very well. A 4-axle diesel might do just fine, but probably not anything in medium or bigger steam.
My suggestion is to work really hard on tuning your track; replacing sections on curves with soldered flextrack if you can, checking gauge, fastening it down… If the fastened down thing won’t work for you, I heartily suggest you consider Kato Unitrack.
Just my two cents. I’ve run a lot of steam in both HO and N and found that the weakest link was always my track. This time I spent more time on my track than on anything else.
Right now I have (really) iffy trackwork, and the locos I have can handle it rather well. Biggest loco I’ve run on the track is a Hudson, and other than it balking at every single little dirty spot in the track (it’s gotta be the “pick up left rail power from loco and right rail power from the tender” wiring scheme), it seems to handle the track relatively nicely.
The dormroom “layout” will be “upgraded” to Bachmann EZ Track or Unitrack over my Christmas break, provided the Niagara doesn’t like it. Have to wait til I get home from school on Friday to test that out…
The semi-permanent layout is going to be flextrack with the odd bit of sectional track thrown in where necessary (or wherever it’ll fit perfectly - like if i have a “standard” size between two TO’s or something)
and with this new power - it’s back to the drawing board so I can shoehorn a 130’ TT into a place I had only anticipated using a 100’…
Dan I think the main reason the Niagara was a problem was the tender. It as a 2 axel front truck then 5 to 6 fixed axles behinde the front truck. Try a GS-4 first, the tender does not have the fixed wheel’s on the tender.
Slector my friend, I think run steam on a bench is a matter of luck as well. You have to have the basic (soory about the spelling) idea, and a engine that is right as well.
My bench, well is not that great. Some of my 12 wheels still don’t like it.
Well I broke out the J and I was stuned! Not being very bright, I did not think any sounds would work till I went DCC. I was wrong as you people know. I am using the MRC 9500 and it is draging 22 cars with it’s traction driver with no effort.
Now what is the bang sound when the engine is not moving? Sounds like it threw some rods! About a hour now and no miss happes. Just need to hide the box with the $ on it so wife does not see it.
