Several people have recommended that I start a new thread about building my new layout. There has been some discussion about what I propose in the last few pages of the thread below, but the thread just got way too long and convoluted:
What will be unique about my layout is that I will be able to do almost all of the work while sitting in a chair, that is if things work out as planned. Standing for more than a couple of minutes is painful thanks to a bad back, and getting under a layout would be impossible. What I propose is to build the layout on a rotisserie so that it can be rotated to allow me to reach both the top and the bottom of the layout while sitting in a chair. This is a very rough sketch of how the benchwork and supports would look:
The layout will be 12’ long x 5’4" wide. The center of the actual layout frame will be a box, or spine if you will (not spline) made out of 1x6s and 1x4s. That should be plenty strong enough to support the 12’ length of the layout without flexing too much. The cross members will be attached to either side of the spine and the outside framing will then be attached to the cross members. That will form the benchwork.
To support the benchwork, I’m going to build two end supports which will be linked at their bases by L girders using 1x6s and 1x4s. The end supports will hold the rotisserie bearings, which will be similar t
are you familiar with The One Module at A time (TOMA) approach to building a layout by fully completing each module before starting the next. Each module is built on a rotisserie
Greg’s picture, or something somewhat along the lines of a free-standing hammock I think would be a better way to frame up the rotisserie itself. With eh supports at the outer edges, there’s pretty much zero chance of rolling up close to the layout seated in a chair. ANd if standing, with the layout vertical to access the bottom, like for feeding a wire through from the top to the bottom, it’s something to trip over.
I’ll have to draw it out, but I’m thinking something like a U channel (made like an L girder - just add another small side), with the verticals going up and being braces like the ones shown in Greg’s picture. Possible one extra brace at each end, diagonally from the upright tot he U channel.
I have back problems too as well as a bone to bone knee so I’m with you on this one.
I took a fall from a tower in 1965 and pretty much busted everything. I did pretty good until 2006 when things started caching up with me.
When I started my current layout in 1988 I put a lot of thought into the future, the doctors back in 65 warned me that as I grew older my fall would haunt me with age.
I made it as large as I thought I could and still work from a chair. L shaped 10’ x 14’ x 30” high. So far I have been able to keep at it baring Arthritis flare-ups. The center of my layout is about 3½’ from the sides. I’m 6’2” but still too far. I bought a TopSide Creeper (Micro-Mark on sale with free shipping) and that gets me into the middle of my layout.
I don’t have the room under my layout for that contraption. It’s full of stuff in storage. I’d have to move everything out.
Right now, a milk crate with a 3/4" plywood top does the job. [(-D]
I like the rotisserie thing for Dave’s sake, just interested on how he’s going to build it, and have full access, getting around any needed braces, for something that long.
Good points Randy. Thank you for pointing out the flaws in my design.[bow] More to think about!
There is no reason that the supports between the end panels have to go on the outside edges. Your suggestion of using a U channel in the center makes sense. One minor drawback to doing that might be that the layout will have to be a bit higher off the floor so it can clear the U channel as it rotates. However, I have to ask whether or not the layout actually has to rotate 180 degrees. I can do all the under layout work with the benchwork on its side, or nearly so, which it would be if the benchwork bumped up against the U channel. Turning the layout completely upside down would be counterproductive because I would still have to stand to do a lot of the work, which is exactly what I’m trying to avoid.
I don´t want to rain on your parade, but I don´t think that building a 5´4" deep layout “on a spit” is really a workable idea. To be able to rotate the layout, the layout must be close to 3´ above the floor, which puts the top 5´8" high. Either you have to stand up doing all the wiring or you have to crawl on the floor. I would not be able to do either!
I think that building this layout in manageable segments, similar to the original “Beer Line” layout is a better idea.
Dave, I think it can be done exactly the way you drew it.
Idea 1: Have the frame made from alluminum at a welding/erection/fabrication shop. That will solve all the problems with wood.
Idea 2: If you do wood, do not try to find 14 foot long 1 by 6s. Make them by biscuit joining 1 by 3s on end with plenty of glue. You can use 8 goot long boards and stagger the joints. Make 1 by 4s using 1 by 2s and the same technique.
I have know many modelers that develop mobility issues and cannot use their layouts. It is better to design all this in from the beginning.
Your concern is appreciated Ulrich, but I have done some measurements and I can quite comfortably reach up to 5’6" above the floor when seated in my office chair. There won’t be much wiring that close to the fascia, and things like control panels will be built on my workbench and their connections can be wired into terminal strips that will be within easy reach.
I would be using my workbench chair which can be raised a bit higher than my office chair, and it is on casters as a bonus. This is the chair, but mine doesn’t have arms to get in the way:
As far as having to reach down to the floor, I don’t think that would be necessary. In order to work on the lower portion of the layout I simply have to rotate the layout in the opposite direction and roll around to the other side. What was the lower portion on one side becomes the upper portion when the layout is flipped in the opposite direction. The U channel will prevent the layout from turning a full 90 degrees, but it will rotate far enough to make the underside easily accessible.
Please keep your comments and suggestions coming. Randy just saved me from having to do a lot of corrective carpentry!
To work on my wiring I use this roll-around goodie.
The bottom tray is real handy for tools and parts. I haven’t been able to get on my knees for all most 20 years.
I string all my wires around the outside perimeter of my layout using Telco D Ring hangers.
I just scoot around run my wires, none of the wire hangers are even close to full after more than 20 years and hundreds of wires. They are mounted 4” below the layout surface and 12” in from the edge, easy to get to and fast too.
Dave - I may be wrong, but most of your track is either in the upper part of the layout, or the lower, so most of the wiring will have to be there. I wouldn´t want to handle a hot soldering iron with my hands raised nearly above my head and risk hot solder dripping down on my face.
That raises a couple of concerns for me. One is cost, and the second is the fact that I had better get the frame right the first time! Wood I can change, aluminum not so much.
Your suggestions are valid for sure, but I really don’t want to spend the time doing all of that joining. I can get 14’ poplar 1x4s and 1x6s just down the road in Aurora. I only need three pieces that long for the U channel. The rest can be done with 12’ lengths. There is a real lumber shop in Barrie that has 12’ clear pine 1x4s and 1x6s for very good prices. They supplied the lumber for the club layout and there were no rejects in the shipment and almost no knots.
I don’t think that things will get to that point. The bus wires don’t have to be directly under the track. If I use #22 gauge feeder wires it won’t matter if they are 12+" long. Most other connections will be made with terminal strips. There is also the option of using suitcase connectors but I really don’t care for them.
I was not familiar with the TOMA concept. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
The rotisserie shown in the picture is much lighter in construction than I plan on doing. Of course, I always build things like the proverbial brick outhouse! If two screws will do, I’ll use four![(-D] I built my deck with 2x10s on 12" centers.[:-^] After 24 years it still doesn’t squeak or move!
I built two 2” x 4” frames, one for the layout top and one for the bottom. I used ½” plywood for the end panels between the two frames. I covered the bottom frame with ¼” plywood as I use it for storage under my layout. The layout plywood top is ½”. The bottom frame is mounted on 3½” metal casters so that I can move my layout around for cleaning the garage floor under my layout.
I also am building a roll-around layout. I’m using narrow shelves in an around the walls G-shape with a peninsula. I have the advantage of being in N-scale however so the turn back blob on the peninsula only needs to be 40" across.
I do like the rotisserie idea though. Just keep in mind that you can have an extra leg or two that you attach to the edge of your grid with a C-clamp wherever it is convenient.
You could also build the vertical supports and cross members that hold your axle to allow for vertical adjustment of the layout so you can invite Ulrich to come over and solder.
I have done some experimenting and with the way I have designed the track plan, I shouldn’t have to reach in very far. Almost all of the track will be within a couple of feet from the fascia so rerailing rolling stock won’t require me to stand. I believe that almost all of the layout construction can be done from my chair with the layout tilted at various angles. The only things that I can think of that will require me to stand will be installing ballast and any loose scenery materials where the layout will have to be level.
One challenge that I will have to figure out is how to make the structures removable but have them stay in place when the layout is flipped on its side. I’m considering using neodymium magnets but I will have to make sure that the structures are strong enough to withstand a little pulling, and that the magnets are strong enough to hold the larger buildings in place. I think I will use your brass tube connector system to feed power to the buildings. I’ll have to rewire most of my lighted vehicles to eliminate the clumsy wiring coming out of the bottoms so I can install the brass tubes into them as well.
Randy’s suggestion of using a center U channel to link the two end supports together at the bottom should leave most of the area under the layout clear. The end supports will be a bit of an obstacle to get around, but I think I could get away with making them only 4’ wide. That would move the outer ends in under the layout by about 8" so at least from the sides of the layout, I wouldn’t be stubbing my toes on them all the time.
The 12’ long benchwork will be built with a center box beam made from 1x6s and 1x4s. It will be just like having two L girders glued together. It should be plenty strong enough to span 12’. The 1x4 crossmembers that run between the box beam and the fascia will be about a little over 28" long so I think they will be quite stable. The fascia itself will be 1x6s. I will use 1/4" plywood on top of the benchwork covered by 2" foam. The plywood is only there to make it easier to attach things to the bottom of the layout.
