Hi Fellas from Orlando, the land of Mice and Potter.
I just found a box with all my old trains I played with until I was 12 or so.
My boy has some interest, and before the kid discovers girls I thought we could build a layout like my dad and I did.
Lumber is expensive. Is there a better material that y’all use now since 35 years ago?
Whatever we use I will need to buy tools to work with.
Not really wanting to buy bunches of new power tools.
[#welcome] to the Model Railroader Forums,1971_Z28
I’d still go with lumber for the framework, and plywood for the surface, but many nowadays use extruded styrofoam instead.
As for tools, a saw (handsaw or electric), a drill (powered or manual) and a screwdriver could pretty-well cover your needs…a square might be useful, too, and a pencil.
My benchwork is open grid, using 1"x4" select pine (yeah, they don’t give that stuff away), and it’s supported by 2"x4"s, that were mysteriously left over after I built my house…
…and the layout is an around-the-room type in this oddly shaped room…
…and is partially double-decked…
I’d suggest that you start small, as your son’s interest may fade due to that “girl thing” - I became interested in them when I was three.
Wayne
Hello All,
[#welcome] back to the greatest hobby in the world!
Unfortunately/fortunately wood is the simplest material to work with when constructing a pike (layout).
At the current prices, it might be cost-prohibitive at this time.
One option would be to make your benchwork (framework) out of metal studs.
A circular saw; corded or cordless, with a metal cutting blade is necessary to use this material.
The sub roadbed should be some sort of plywood. I use 1/4-inch under 1-inch “blue” or “pink” extruded foam insulation board.
If you are just testing the waters, and the old equipment, I suggest setting up a small circle of track on a 4’x4’ sheet of 1/4-inch plywood. It is thick enough to hold track nails to keep the track in place and light enough to move and store.
Then, if you decide to expand you can incorporate this half-sheet of plywood into your larger pike.
Keep us informed on your progress and as always…
Hope this helps.
A possible alternate would be to use commercially manufactured modular tables. Check out Marklinofsweden on YouTube. His multi-episode tutorial building a “first timer’s” layout used modular tables he purchased from Ikea. The only real drawback I could see was the fixed height of the table (regular desk height). Otherwise, he got solid tables with screw-on tubular metal legs including built-in leveling feet. He put his layout together on six of the smallest tables (about 24" by 39") called Linnmon/Adils for $25 per table (total of $150). The only additional items were pre-drilled steel plates he used to screw the tables together. Looking on the IKEA website, they have three larger size table sets called Lagkapten/Adils. The next larger size is about 47" by 24" ($40) followed by 55" by 24" ($46) and 79" by 24" ($68). Not all that much cheaper than lumber but ready to assemble with no cutting. I could not find anything similar at Lowes or Home Depot.
Being that the legs are tubular, you could always add PVC leg extensions to raise the layout height.
Price of lumber is coming down and should continue to decline.
Ikea can sell finished lumber products for quite close to what you might buy lumber for from the local home despot location, Ivar is actually made in Sweden which is astonishing considering the price. I’ve seen examples of Ivar used in layouts discussed in MRR.
Using walls as the supports for shelves upon which you build the layout can save lumber costs. The legs and basic box framing for the top is what costs the money even if you use foam tops rather than plywood. Something has to hold everything up off the floor.
I agree with the suggestion to start fairly small and build so you can add on and expand a usable beginning layout.
About 9’x5’ if you walk around the outside of the layout, which requires a room of about 14’ x 10’. Or build around the walls and get longer runs of track and view and operate from " inside" the around the room layout.
How old is your boy?
maybe a 4x8 foam board, with kato unitrack on top? Folding table from Walmart.
I personally like a wooden box frame and a subroadbed base of pink foam. The foam is easy to cut and work with, but I hate to inform you that it’s primary purpose is winter insulation and is hard to find anywhere in Florida. You’re probably better off just using plywood.
Also, welcome aboard! [#welcome]
The Internet being what it is, everyone is under a bit of moderation for a few posts, just to keep the site as pleasant as it is. You may not see your posts immediately, but that will pass.
Hi 1971_Z28,
First, welcome to the forums and welcome back to the hobby! [#welcome]
I think that 1x3 or 1x4 lumber would be the easiest to work with for the frame and legs. All you need is a circular saw or a miter saw, a drill, a square, and a tape measure and pencil. You will also need some drill bits, screwdriver bits and some carpenter’s glue.
For the table, I would suggest 2" extruded pink foam insulation on top of 1/4" or 3/8" plywood. The plywood makes it easy to attach things to the bottom of the layout.
That’s the easy part! I would offer a word of caution with regard to your old locomotives. If they have been sitting for 35 years they are not likely to run very well. They will need to be cleaned and re-lubricated. Even after doing that, depending on the quality of the locomotives, they still may not run very reliably. If they don’t run nicely your son is liable to lose interest very quickly. The bottom line is that you might need to invest in a newer locomotive or two. The old cars can usually be made to work properly.
You are in for some fun times with your son!
Please don’t hesitate to ask questions!
Cheers!!
Dave
Hi again 1971_Z28,
I’m not sure what your current level of knowledge is regarding model trains, but here are a few things that you might want to think about:
Do you want to use DC control with a simple power pack like you did 35 years ago, or do you want to use DCC (Digital Command Control) which adds a whole lot of additional features to the operation of your layout? People have described the difference between the two systems by saying that with DC you are controlling the track but with DCC you are actually driving the trains. If you go with DCC, I think most people will agree that your son will be much more interested in building and operating the layout given younger peoples propensity for electronics. You won’t be able to use your old locomotives without having a decoder installed, and depending on their quality, installing a decoder might be a waste of time and money.
What type of track do you want to use? If your old track is brass or plain steel it will be a pain to keep clean so it is best to invest in newer nickel-silver track. You can buy track with or without the roadbed attached. If you would rather be running trains than doing track ballasting, then something like Kato’s Unitrack is ideal.
How much space do you have for the layout? You need to be able to reach all of the layout so doing something like putting a 4x8 layout up against a wall (on the long side) will leave significant areas of the layout out of reach. There is a law that says that your derailments will always occur in that area![swg]
Related to the above point, you will need to draw a detailed plan of the room your layout will be in, including all doors and windows, and any other things like posts or electrical panels. When you are designing your layout don’t skimp on aisle space, especially if there will be two operators who will have to get past each other in the same aisle. There are several people on the forums who would be happy to help you design your layout, but o
Welcome to the forums!
With all the talk about the high price of lumber, I have not seen what scale you have and what kind of space you have available. What you can do beyond the traditional 4x8 has been looked at a lot in the last 35 years. If you are considering keeping this going for yourself when girls derail his train of thought (pun intended), you may want to keep future expansion in mind.
My sons and grandchildren were never much interested in the trains. Great grandson likes to play choo-choo, we’ll see if his interest keeps up as I build a new layout.
Have fun,
Richard
If you buy power tools for this job get Li ion battery power, not plug in. The very common two piece drill and hammer driver combination pack is very handy. A battery powered circular saw is handy. Get your plywood sheet cut by the lumber store on their panel saw if possible. Sheet foam is easier to work with than plywood.
To keep the interest of your son think DCC with wireless handheld throttles. By all means build the layout with DC only capability to run your now classic stuff but DCC is far more interesting to the younger computer literate generation. Your son will be teaching you all about it.
There is a wealth of information about how to wire and operate one of these dual capability DC or DCC layouts. Two things: plan on running only one DC powered train at a time just like the old days and make sure you cannot accidentally power the layout with DCC power when a DC locomotive may still be on the layout somewhere, DC motors don’t like DCC voltages.
Wiring for DCC can be trainset simple especially for a small layout and you can immediately run two or more trains at the same time everywhere on the layout. It’s magical stuff.
Yes, cherish these moments right now, they may fade away fast!
So here is my two-cents worth. I used lumber for my frame and looking at the price I paid, it’s really only a fraction of the cost of everything else I paid for the hobby. The power source and the track alone is way more expensive.
Anyway, if money is tight, go with construction-grade lumber. You can hide it later with something else. You might be able to find used lumber, but it might be harder to work with depending on the type of wood. It may be warped and it might crack easily. Choose carefully and always drill a hole before inserting a screw. Table top can be foam, as others have suggested. Foam, the pink stuff, can also be found used if you look for it. Like I said, do the math… construction grade lumber is not that expensive for a small layout.
I would stick with DC first, with one or two locos. Athearn, old and new, are good buys IMHO. If you buy new, Bachmann and Walters are good value for money. If you think lumber is expensive, check out the DCC systems and locos…
Simon
Just my two cents, but I’d consider getting a PowerCab and a WiFi throttle from iron planet hobbies. That way, you can run trains from your phone or tablet. Keep the younin interested longer.
A wise man once said, teach your kids to love model railroading, and they won’t have enough money to buy adult beverages, happy powder, or, for that matter, a date![:D][%-)]
I was reading that lumber prices have dropped in the past month and thought I’d check as an example, a 4x8 sheet of 7/16 OSB. It was priced around $45 last time I checked some weeks back. Today I checked and it was $14 and change. Apparently lumber prices have dropped a good deal. Take a look for yourself.
I prefer wood myself and I’ve been holding off on buying some additional needed OSB but it looks like prices has dropped a lot and are much closer to pre pandemic prices.
The kid is 14 and has just started his high school.
I just want the old trains to be a temporary thing because he will not hold interest long.
I bought him as hamster motored corvette for his 12 birthday snd thought we would spend a few years fixing it up but we got it done fast and cheeper than planned.
I want to have the trains be a craft project we can work on before he moves on.
It sounds like lumber is the way to go.
Hi 1971_Z28 [#welcome]
It is great fun building a railroad wth children in mind.
Just my [2c]
Have fun building it.
Be able to operate the railroad by one person (as well as total number of operators). Most times only one operator will be available.
If anything (scenery) gets broken (because it will) do not worry.
Let your lad have a free reign when he operates the railroad. He will appreciate it more.
I let my grandchildren ‘loose’. They come back. [(-D]
Enjoy the journey
David
Sounds like a fun project. I’m only about 2 years older than your son, and I’d like to say, if he hasn’t been interested in trains since a young child, perhaps it will become more than just a temporary thing. It’s not often that a teenage boy (in my experience) will openly be interested or pursue “playing with trains”. I still get weird looks from my “normal” friends, but they’re generally pretty cool about it.
If the layout will be temporary then a 4x8, probably with a foam top is the way to go. You can carve landforms and build scenery right on the foam, and it’s might lighter and easier to work with than plywood. I started with plywood (at around 9 years old), and that was a driving factor to rebuild the whole thing this past year.
Best wishes on your project, and who knows? Maybe your son will turn out like me- I love my trains more than any girl… [(-D][swg]
Wow, great pics. You can see the wonder in their eyes. Love it.
Thanks, Andy. I just take a ‘back seat’ and let them run trains as they like.
The reason my elder granddaughter was laughing.
‘Passengers on the train’.
They made a couple of circuits before I found out. I hope none fell off.
David
Modelling a passenger train on the Indian subcontinent?