Thanks rrebell,
Dave
Dave
I don’t think of it as by the foot. Our HOn3 modules are typically 2ft by 3-4ft in length. Because we don’t have a permanent home, portability is important. One person can lift and carry up to 4ft, but that is the max. Modules that were built longer often don’t get used.
Usually there are 2-3 modules in a module set for a yard, large industry, special scene, junction, etc. Modules are made wider where the scene or track arrangement demands it. Corners and fitter pieces will go down to as narrow as 12", with a tapered piece connecting to the 2ft modular standard width.
I would say it would be very difficult to build a 2 module set to our specs for less than $500, all up, and would most likely end up in the $700+ range with a structure or two.
We require furniture grade 3/4" plywood end plates, anything less just won’t take the stress of transport and clamping. Our newer legs are generally made from 2x2 - finding straight pieces of 2x2 is a shopping adventure. The two piece legs are drilled for threaded rod to allow top adjustment of the leg length - most venues where we set up have very uneven floors. We mandate top adjustment to prevent back injuries and crawling on the floor to adjust leg length.
Add roadbed, track, turnouts, turnout mot
Yeah, you’re probably right. Once you get involved with bureaucrats and local politicians (not to mention Dept of Environmental Regulation) there’s no end to it.
On another note . . . How’s your club set up? Not being nosy or anything, just curious. Is it chartered, registered, or incorporated, etc? I belonged to a club that was registered as a non-profit educational club. Not to avoid taxes or liability or anything, but set up to receive charitable contributions. The 501(c) designation (or the Canadian equivalent) might encourage local businesses to contribute stuff.
We had a guy who was half Baptist preacher and half used car salesman; a real white shoes and white belt kind of guy. Managed to talk a lot of people into donating a lot of stuff: building materials, supplies, paint, nuts-and-bolts, and whatnot. Plywood, sheetrock, sheetrock mud, light fixtures, ceiling tiles . . . even a new basin for the bathroom. A lot of scratch-and-dent, discontinued items, and mismatched, odd color paint, but most of it very usable. Construction companies always have a lot of left over lumber and plywood scraps. Not saying you should go dumpster diving or anything, but asking around might really help.
Also, you might be able to get some city park and recreation grants or something. But be careful, public tax-payer grants often come with a lot of strings attached.
Anyhow, good luck.
Robert
For legs I riped the 1x4 and made an l shaped leg, very cheap and very strong. 1x4’s are some of the cheapest wood in pine and yes you can get straight ones at the big box store. You need to look at them as cut up peices, so a 10’ board might get you 4 or 5 peices that are 22 1/2". The size I use for the ends and middle, a 10’ boad might yeild two 4’ peices and an end, etc.
Dave,
I think you need to consider why you want modules. If the only reasojn is to deal with the eventuality of moving, then like rrebell noted, why worry about the fancy stuff required for the end-to-end connections? Build them so they can be separated and forgo the fancy module interchange stuff and you’ll save a bunch of time and effort.
If you do anticipate something opther than a potential move in the event a different space is needed fort the layout and do want to buiild something ready to take apart (RTTA?), then the FREMO standards work well and provide for a lot of useful future flexibility.
Thanks Fred:
It does help a lot. Obviously just using a $ figure for the basic module parts could be misleading so it helps to see the approximate costs for a fully finished module as well.
Dave
Hi Robert:
I’m not certain of the exact status of the club but I know that it is not-for-profit. We do not have charitable status.
Dave
Hi Mike:
The reason I am asking all these questions is so that I can offer informed suggestions about what our layout construction options are. Modules are just one option (actually they offer several options given the size variations that are possible).
Here is a summary of the options as I see them. These are NOT in order of preference:
-
Build a single large structure similar to what is done for permanent home layouts. Doing it in reasonably sized sections that can be dismantled at some point in the future seems to make sense. Theoretically, the work can be spread out among all members of the club, with suitable training included for those without experience.
-
Build a ‘formal’ modular layout, i.e. 2’ x 4’ standard modules with matching end panels. This could be done in several ways:
a. Each person builds and owns their module(s) from the ground up,
b. The club builds the basic modules as a group and individuals or small groups finish them,
c. The club does everything as a group.
d. I’m sure there are other possibilities.
- Go ‘Free-Mo’ with each member building their own sections. Whether or not we strictly adhere to the formal Free-Mo rules is another question.
As it stands now, the layout isn’t going to be moved around much if ever. It might get moved to the Allandale Station or it might not. We don’t know if that will ever happen. We might find a better clu
A thought on options 2 and 3, but implicit in Option 1.
If the members are all or mostly experienced modelers with good woodworking skills, then letting each go their own way in creating the entire is feasible.
If there’s a wide variance in skills/tools available among the members, it might be wise to build the modules as a group project at least to the point of being able to lay track. That way the skilled members can ensure consistency and standardization.
Why? Even if all are skilled, getting a good match between modules is critical and not as easy as it sounds. Finishing to that point ensures that there’s at least a workable chance that when the modules come back with track laid on them and awaiting the link up, things will work out OK. Best practice would be aimed at establishing at least a continuous track center line across all module boundaries before they go their separate ways to be finished by individual members. Doing that helps ensure what comes in between, like locating curves and other track features so they will be accurate enough to suit your needs.
Also, using smaller modules creates a need for more accuracy in greater quantity, although rationalizing a track plan so that larger modules will be used for larger track features like a yard makes a lot of sense. That’s where the FREMO concept proves useful, although I agree that for a club concept that depicts a complete stand-alone layout unlikely to be broken down choosing to observe just the standards needed to get the club’s needs met makes sense.
If it does end up in a space that could be expandable from time to time, you might anticipate that by adding at least one full-on FREMO interface to the original layout whether or not the layout is designed with it in place, This would also allow guest modules to link up easily. Taking adfvantage of the opportunity to add guest exhibits from time to time is a good way to freshen things and get more return visitors in a large display
More good points!
The concept of being able to add interfaces to our portable layout has been in place for a long time. In our old clubhouse we had an around the walls modular layout that was purposely built at the same height as our travelling layout. The plan (never realized) was to be able to link the two layouts together.
The biggest challenge was the lack of space. Our new clubhouse will give us a lot more flexibility to do that sort of thing IF we want to. The ‘IF’ raises a whole new set of questions about how to build the new layout. If we don’t allow space for the portable layout to be set up in the clubhouse so we can work on it, then I think the reliability of the portable layout will go to you know where in a hurry. Logic suggests that we should build the permanent layout with the ability to attach the portable layout to it if for no other reason than to be able to maintain the travelling layout. We could have a permanent layout and the travelling layout as two separate layouts in the same room. However, we only have 800 sq. ft. to work with and the travelling layout would take up 1/4 of that space by itself.
Decisions, decisions!!
Thanks Mike.
Dave
Gidday Dave, a lot of good advice so far. Even if I may not agree with some of it, no one’s put you crook.
One question cos my brain hurts and I’m getting confused. [*-)] In your last post you refer to a portable layout and a travelling layout, are they one and the same thing?
I do think that the idea of being able to join your proposed new layout to your existing layout (s) is a good long term aim.
I would also suggest that you get your existing layout(s) up and running as soon as you move in so at least members will have something to run on. I say this from the experience at our Club where the brainstrust [banghead] tore down a working sceniced layout without a plan,(and without any due democratic procedure) apart from “we should do modules”.[banghead] As a consequence, members were lost, one reason because there was nothing to run their trains on, another being the amount of time (and timewasting arguments) that was involved in getting a “modular system” and standards in place!!! I could go on but would only get [:(!] again!!
One thing that has been mentioned a couple of times but I don’t believe has been emphasised enough is t
It is best to have a few people or one even (dosn’t take long to cut the components) that has a table saw to cut all the modular peices. A small group can put them together. Once they are built and put together go for scenery as a group, otherwise you can get a real mishmash of styles. You could build a three module yard and move it in one peice by adding a 2’x6’ temporary wood to both sides, just for the move and proubly have no damage. I have moved a two section one by myself without this with no damage. My layout is very light weight and I can lift a 4’x4’ return loop, fully sceniced with a large rock canyon with one hand (could do it with three fingers before the plaster work).
How big is the layout going to be?
Hi JaBear:
I am speaking of two separate layouts.
The portable (travelling) modular layout is 6’ x 12’ and packs very nicely into two 2’ x 4’ x 5’ high boxes on wheels. It is actually a very creative design given the way it all goes together.
The new ‘permanent’ layout will be an entirely separate beast but we may set it up so that the portable layout can be attached as an extension. The old permanent layout has gone to the scrap yard. It was comprised of 2’ x 4’ modules for the most part but because of some inconsistencies between the modules we decided that saving them would be more work that building new ones, that is if we decide to go the modular route again.
I strongly agree that we should allow for space for the portable layout to be set up as soon as possible.
Dave
That is a question that has yet to be answered. I haven’t seen the new space yet so I can’t comment on layout size other than to say that the room is 800 sq.ft. The portable layout will take approximately 216 sq. ft. given a three foot aisle around all four sides. We could build the permanent layout to take up the entire 800 sq. ft., but build it so that it could be partially taken apart to create space for setting up the portable layout when needed for servicing.
There are lots of options.
Dave
I got to see the new ‘Club House’ tonight. Compared to the hole we were in, it is fantastic! The main room is about 25’ x 32’ and there is also a kitchen area and a small storage area about 8’ x 10’. There are lots of outlets around the main room. Lighting is adequate. I suspect that fresh fluorescent tubes might brighten things considerably. One wall is dark blue and the others have a wide dark blue stripe on them. Painting the walls a brighter colour will help a lot too.
[:D][tup][Y][:)]
Dave
Costco is now carrying 4ft LED replacement tubes at reasonable prices (subsidized by the power company). I just bought some for the house and was pleasantly surprised by the increase in brightness. Pop-in, no rewiring required. I still had F40 tubes and magnetic ballasts, and the LED replacement (advertised as T8 replacement) worked fine.
Fred W
I’ve worked on fluorescent lighting professionally. I have noticed an incredible increase in light when the white “ceiling pans” are cleaned. They are, after all, reflectors. And they reflect better when they’re actually white. Clean diffusers, if there are any, also contribute.
Re: Free-mo.
If you want to entertain the concept of Free-mo, I recommend going here:
And clicking on, up top, “What is Free-mo?” and then “The Standard”.
If “you guys” choose to build to the official standards, you can take your modules “anywhere”, if you choose, and play with the other kids. And they can visit, too.
On, the other hand, you may find that a strict following of the standards just won’t work out for your crew, but is still useful as guidance for your own layout. Sorta pick-and-choose.
Either way, the standards have evolved and are presently pretty reliable. So maybe some of your research will have been done for you.
Congrats on getting what is likely an exc
Lowes and Home Depot also have those 4 foot LED replacement tubes.
I looked at them but then just bought a whole new 4 foot LED shop light. I installed it this morning. It is bright, and I even like the color better.
Dave
And, speaking of lighting:
I recommend thinking a lot before building a section of a permanent layout under a light fixture. 'Cause you may have to reach it later.
There’s a big ole club I know of where they did that. In many locations.
Ed