I was looking at the fast tracks site and found their bull frog turnout actuators. They seem quite reasonable in price until I saw all the extras needed to make them work. Am I missing something?
Are those of you that use them satisfied?
Don’t forget to add a link of what you’re talking about.
http://www.handlaidtrack.com/BullFrog-Manual-Turnout-Control-s/2087.htm
Basically it’s just a wired manual control of turnouts. The extra’s appear to accommodate different installations.
All you need at a minimum are the Bullfrog itself. You can craft your own control system if you wanted to, like maybe out of some stiff wire like an old coathanger if you’re super-cheap. But the less ambitious/scroogish just needs the control rod kit.
The other stuff like the Tadpole are for specific deployments. I have a Tadpole to help because a turnout fell pretty close to one the joints between sections and i needed the extra support on the control rod’s run.
I’m pretty satisfied with them. They assemble pretty easily and they’re sturdier than you’d think. Although I seem to have maybe got a few parts with faults in the batch I just got and I feel bad mentioning it because I haven’t had time to contact the manufacturer.
Bruce
I purchased 14 of the Bull Frog units and installed them all in one day. They install very easily, although I did make a few modifications to the mounting plate. I purchased the units that you put together yourself. The first few take a little time to do, but then the rest went much smoother. They have videos showing you how to do all of this. The videos are very helpful. Fasttracks was great to deal with, I asked a lot of questions are they went out of their way to help. Good luck.
I would have to study the product a little more to make any substantive comment, but at first glance I would have to agree with you Bruce that it seems like you need to buy additional items to make the Bull Frog fully operational. By time you are done, you could buy Tortoises in bulk for not that much more and have electrical control instead of manual control.
Rich
Bullfrog and a control rod kit is $9. You’re not going to get a Tortoise for that. That’s all you need to install and control one. You don’t really need the control rod kit, you can make the linkage to the fascia yourself. All those other accessories are option or for very specific situations (liek the crossover linkage kit).
–Randy
If I use these bull frog actuators, the control rod will need to be in an “S” shape. Are these rods flexible enough to do this? Will the frogs, as supplied, work with 2 1/2" foam bases?
Bruce, my bullfrogs are mounted under the layout. The wire that moves the turnout goes thru 1/2’ plywood, 2" of foamboard and then Woodland Scenics foam roadbed with length to spare. I drilled 1/2" holes under each turnout. They work great. I did not need any extra accessories although I did purchase a few tadpoles just in case.
Randy,
I understand what you are saying, but if you buy the Bull Frog assembled plus a control rod kit, it is going to cost $12 and operation is still manual. When you can still buy a Tortoise for under $15 and it is fully automated, the Bull Frog doesn’t have much of an advantage.
Rich
Rich,
Advantages (or lack thereof) aside, it would come down to which of the two methods of turnout control would I find more enjoyable. For me, I would rather use manual control because it would give me a small sense of what it was like to control turnouts from an interlocking tower or along the track side. That - to me - would be an advantage…
Tom
For some things, you need to learn to do a little engineering and experimenting. Now that doesn’t mean you have to get out the calculator and run a bunch of numbers using different formulas. What I mean is, buy ONE, and figure out if you can make the linkage on your own, using things that you may already have on hand. If you can, fine, get more of them. If you can’t, don’t get any more, but try something else.
There is nothing more valuable than a personal learning experience. Not everything can be cut and dried and figured out ahead of time before you even have the item on hand. Advice is fine, experience is better.
Hi Bruce,
These turnout controls are a snap to assemble and use. I prefer manual control - much cheaper by any standard of comparison too - and these little devices will fill the bill for most folks. However, when assembled, they do require a long throw length - 1/2 to 3/4 inch back and forth - compared with the quarter-inch or less of the equivalent Blue Point product (which I actually prefer). Also, the Blue Point is built around a DPDT switch, which I require: one set of contacts for the frog, another for signal information.
Both the Bullfrog and the Blue Point are operated with a model aircraft control cable (or make your own) - which has some minimum radius of curvature for proper operation. The Bullfrog specifies a minimum curvature in their instructions - which I would have to dig to find. Your ‘S-curve’ is going to be tricky with either device.
Or you simply don’t want to do that much electrical work.
And then theres the expense and labor in a control panel. All I have to do for the Bullfrog is drill a hole for the control rod to go through.
Also, going purely off a cost perspective: if you spend $12 per Bullfrog and let’s say $17 per Tortoise (after the machine and the infrastructure to wire and control it), 10 turnouts puts you at $120 or $170. That’s 42% more expenditure.
You can still find Tortoises on eBay and Amazon for under $15,
But, if you are looking for the cheapest way to operate a turnout, just move the throwbar with your fingers and put a push pin in place to hold it.
Rich
If you have access to a litbrary of old MR’s, you can look up at least two articles I remember where the author of the article made his own non-electrical turnout controls; both articles showed how to construct an over center spring control to hold the points tight against the stock rails. If you want to go cheap; if you like manual control of your turnouts; I recommend you do a little research through 40 to 50 year old MR’s, there isn’t really all that much that hasn’t been covered before over the years in Model Railroader Magazine.
If you really want something different; look up the old Pillar to Post series of articles in the 1950’s era MR. There was an article on ‘Switches the Move with a Cachoo’, or something like that. My spelling sucks; but the articles showed using compressed air to operate turnouts; kind of a novel idea.
You need more than a Tortoise - you need a power supply and a DPDT toggle, or a pair of power supplies and a SPDT switch, or an AC power supply, some diodes, and a SPDT toggle.
It’s tough to find new Tortoises for $15 anymore, even on eBay - don;t forget to add the shipping, The ‘cheap’ guys tack on a good bit for shipping. ANd most of the used ones I’ve come across on eBay look pretty abused, although I have a Tortoise I’ve taken apart multiple times and forced back and forth so hard the gears stripped, but it still works, just rather noisily, so they can take pretty much abuse.
MSRP for one is now up to $20, insane. That’s why for electriclly operated turnouts I switched to RC servos. 6/$13 on eBay, $3 each for a mounting bracket because I’m lazy (my friend just glues his on their side right to the bottom of his plywood subroadbed), and a high of $12 per turnout for the operating electronics which includes a DCC decoder - there are other cheaper per turnout options that don’t have a DCC decoder - that one works out to $6.50 per turnout, and that includes pushbutton controlelrs with indicator LEDs. - so for as little as $9/turnout you can have electrically operated ones using servos.
–Randy
Bruce, The best advice I can give you on the Bullfrog units is to go to the Fastracks webs site and look at the videos of the turnouts being built and in action. That should show you what you need to know.
It is interesting to note that the subject of manual ground throws, such as the Caboose Industries ground throw, has not come up in this discussion. The 202S costs around $2.60.
Incidentally, Amazon lists several vendors selling the Tortoise for under $15.
Buy 6 at MB Klein and the cost per Tortoise is $14.38
Buy 12 and the cost is $13.87.
Just saying.
Rich
Indeed. Also, Humpyard manual levers are available at from <$7-$11 each depending on quantity ordered.
Dante
I’m still amazed here at how people with no actual experience with the product feel the need to chime in and compare them to other products.
Really? Love the sight of your words on the screen that much?
To answer the original questions, as others have stated, all you really need is the bullfrog; but I do recommend the control rod set, it just makes things neater and it works really well.
I am very satisfied with them, they install much easier than anything else I’ve used, and are very reliable.
As far as the control rod bend-ability, it’s very good. See below.
I have started ordering a few of the control rod hanger ($2.97) with the rod connector kits, they are very useful in certain situations (like this one) where I want to ensure the rods pull straight into the bullfrog or fascia, but there is no reason you can’t make the same thing from a scrape piece of lumber and a drill, just to save a few bucks.
I actually switched to these from the bluepoints, as they bluepoints didn’t have enough throw power for my switches. I haven’t had that problem with the Bullfrogs.
As has been mentioned, the people at Fast Tracks make great products, and they are more than willing to spend the time in helping you get the right product for your purpose. Note that Tim Warris, one of the founders, used tortoises on his own layout, for very valid reasons. Doesn’t make the bullfrogs better or worse, just d