Hi,
Is Rivarossi the only company that made an HO Allegheny 2-6-6-6? Or were/are there other versions?
Did anyone come out with an N scale version?
Rivarossi’s HO Allegheny is the only plastic one.
In HO, Winton offered a cast metal kit about 60 years ago, and Arbour Models brought out a cast metal kit about 30 years ago that is virtually impossible to make into a good-running model unless you replace the entire running gear.
Otherwise, not counting one-off custom builds, various brass importers have brought in at least 15 runs of them in HO since 1959. The ones I see most commonly available are those Akane imported in the early 1960s.
In N scale, Key imported one run of brass models in 1996.
Thanks. So, what is the average price for a Rivarossi these days? That is, if I can find one…
I bought a built Arbour off ebay and it runs great, I complimented the seller, I believe he built it. There’s only the tender drawber to be worked out and then more serious test runs, but it looks good.
You didn’t say if you’re looking for HO or N, DC or DCC. I’ve looked at the Rivi several times at the LHS with a tag of $350. I happened to come across a used one at another LHS for $70. It went home with me, along with a Spectrum shay and a N&W 2-8-8-2. All were $60-70 (used) HO scale, DCC ready. I’m debating grabbing the UP challenger for$70, since e-bay prices are volatile with the bigger locos,
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that this model came with traction tires. Not a problem unless you get some cars derailed in a tunnel that prevents the engine from moving. The idiot engineer kept applying power and the motor had so much torque that it spun the traction tire off the driver. Took an awful long time to come up with a replacement tire since nobody seems to have a supply of spare parts. I think they finally came up with a non-traction tire driver set to replace the original.
I have this model in both brass and the Rivarossi mine did not have a traction tire(s) when I purchased it but mine was used so I can’t say weather or not they made a chance or the owner did. I use Bull Frog snot on the drivers and it makes a world of difference. The claim that it will pull 100 coal hoppers on a level surface I think is a bit of an exaggeration but after applying Bull Frog Snot I’m confident that the R/R version will do it no problem.
tinman1, I am definitely looking for DCC, have not decided yet on HO or N for sure, but I guess I am leaning towards HO because of better choices in supplies and kits available. I like to build rolling stock and structures with detail and there seems to be much more available in HO. It would be great to go with N because I only have about 14’ x 24’ to work with in my basement but if I can’t get all the variety I want I guess I will have to comprimise a bit with HO as far as longer runs are concerned.
Dumb question, what’s the diff between DC and DCC?
I bought the first-run Rivarossi version, and it’s a very smooth runner. Very nice. About four months after I bought it, the traction tires came loose and I just tossed them. Hasn’t seemed to affect the pulling quality of the loco at all, it’s really nicely balanced. It’ll still handle over 30 cars up my 2% grades with no problem.
Saw an Akane brass model of their last run in my LHS a couple of years ago. It was going for $1100. Mike was test-running it while I was there and it ran like a Swiss watch. Believe it or not, even for that price, it wasn’t there the next week when I came in. Absolutely beautiful loco and it weighed a TON! I hesitate to think of how many cars that baby would pull.
Tom [:)]
Thanks.
I have heard it could pull over 100 fully loaded coal cars through the mountains.
I live just a few minutes away from the original, at Henry Ford Museum. I have seen that beast reguarly since I was about five years old, it truly is a magnificant machine. Every time I see it, I think to myself, gee is sure would be great to see it restored in operating order and running down the track at full speed - better yet with me being pulled in a pullman behind it.
I have been told that one pulling 120 loaded hoppers came across a passenger train with two f7’s that had broken down. He pulled his train and passenger train with no trouble. They could go at a max speed of 45 MPH and had a maximum 8000 hp at the drawbar, more than any other steam engine.
Oh OK 
nfmisso I know what DC is. I was thinking there were two different kinds of DCC.
Getting back to the Allegheny 2-6-6-6, what do you think is the tightest radius that loco could handle? In HO?
I believe that the Rivarossi is manufactured to handle a 22" minimum radius, but of course with any large locomotive, there will be considerable overhang, even with the double articulation.
A brass 2-6-6-6 I wouldn’t expect to be comfortable with anything less than a 30" minimum.
Tom
The Day I brought my Rivi Allegheny home I just plopped some snaptrack together on the floor in front of the woodburner while I sat at my desk working on some other cars. It ran the 18"r curves for hours without incident, owing that to the double articulation. I had more problems clotheslining the string of cars it was pulling due in part to needing wheels and axles cleaned. I think I was only pulling 24 various cars but the engine wasn’t displaying any problems doing it. Yeah, the overhang up front is a little odd around such a tight curve, but the rear engine swinging a little actually seems to both allow it to negotiate the curve and lessen the visable overhang. I picked up an Akane cab forward for $75 at a train show and it handles the tight curves (18") about 75% of the time. I don’t plan on any mainline curves or any curves the bigger engines would run on to be any tighter than 24" anyhow, so the double articulation on the Rivi doesn’t benifit me that much.
I’ve often thought if I chose the right scale as well, as I’ve got about the same amount of room as you. Everytime I go to the LHS or trainshow, I’m quickly reminded that I did get the right one. The amount of HO scale structures, track, rolling stock, and locomotives dwarfs any other scale regardless of where I go. The detail is sufficient for me and I can be relatively sure that if I see a picture of a rr structure on the internet, I can probably find something close in a model. I know I could build large scale cars and locos, but the amount of room needed for the physical layout I imagine is prohibitive. N-scale is just too small for what I want to have in
As to the pulling power of the Rivarossi model, on a friends layout we have successfully pulled as many as 70 average freight cars up a 1.8%, 36" radius helix with no problem. This is of course with the traction tires in place. This would imply that over 100 cars on level track would be no problem for this model.
As for replacement traction tires, those from Calumet Trains should work, one secret, use a smaller size than Calumet recommends and carefully pre stretch them.
Or, BullFrogSnot should work also.
As for the prototype, they were likely the most powerfull loco ever built. Their top speed was well above 45 MPH, but that was a typical working speed for them in freight service. During WWII some were used for passenger service and easily hit speeds of 60 or more.
During a test on 8/12/1943, #1608, with a dynamometer car and 14,083 tons (about 160 cars) in tow, climbed Limeville Hill from a dead stop. During that same run a maximum drawbar HP of 7,498 was recorded at a speed of 46 MPH.
The C&O never used these locos to their full ability, in terms of speed or power, a situation that has puzzeled steam historians for years.
But 150 to 160 loaded hoppers were no problem for the Allegheny.
Sheldon
sheldon:
From what I’ve read about the Allegheney, you’re right on the button–it was somehow never really used to its full capacity. But it was one SPECTACULAR piece of locomotive!
I remember reading a review of the first run way back when in MR Review, and they were comparing it to the Trix “Big Boy”, as I remember. Both seemed to have the same pulling power, though there was question about the Allegheny without the traction tires. Though I seldom run trains of over 30 cars on my layout–simply because of size–since I lost the traction tires on mine, it still does a very Yeoman job of hauling freight trains up my grades. Nice loco.
Tom: The Akane articulateds are noted for being able to get around sharper curves than most other brass articulated power (even though the overhang is TERRIFIC, LOL! [:P]). My Yellowstones and Cab-forwards had no trouble negotiating 24" curves on my old model railroad (my newer on has 34" minimum radius, so is more comfortable for them).
HOWEVER: I would seriously consider replacing the ‘tubing’ between the driver sets with either NWSL or Hobbytown (available through MicroMark) ball-and-socket articulation (similar to that used in diesel locomotives), as the tubing will eventually put a great deal of torque on your motor and eventually wear it out. I’ve replaced all of the tubing on my Yellowstones and Cab-Forwards with ball and socket, and the result is a much smoother running locomotive that doesn’t ‘bind’ on curves. Those Akane mechanisms are simple and virtually indestructable, but the articulation between driver sets does need to be replaced.
Tom [:)]
Thanks tinman1, I feel better about going with HO now.
Regarding “most powerful”:
Refer to www.steamlocomotive.com
The real champion appears to be the PRR Q2 4-4-6-4 at 7,987 Horsepower (indicated at the cylinders). 26 were built. Drawbar horsepower ratings are not available for the Q2. Obviously, we do not know how much of that 7987 HP would have gotten lost before it reached the drawbar–but it very likely could have exceeded the 2-6-6-6.
John
I suspect this was due to fear on part of managment. Methinks that they were afraid to take them too close to their potential for fear of explosions. Steam was dangerous, there were some explosions and some engineers and firemen were killed, so I think they just wanted to be safe.
I remember reading about one widow of an engineer who C&O paid ten thousand dollars to when her husband was killed due to faulty gauges on which did not warn of too high pressure, something like that.
Wow I can only imagine the sight, if one of these bad boys blew up!