A rare but beautiful breed, it seems the C.N.R. ran a lot of these but C.P.R. seemed to think they only needed 2. My question is: did anyone ever make a model of the C.P.R. type in brass? I have seen plastic Northerns but they are American based models and seem quite different than the Canadian type, does anyone out there know if they were made or any information, I would like to see a photo of a model if there are any ----thanks
Tatan,
Are you talking about the 3100 & 3101 4-8-4 series Northerns?
If so, there has been ones in brass & do occasionally pop up on ebay.
http://www.modeltrains.com/WEB%20-%20CMT/Van%20Hobbies/van-hobbies-cpr.htm
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/misc/wheels.shtml
Gordon
I agree, the CPR Northern was a thing of beauty.
http://www.bcarchives.gov.bc.ca/cgi-bin/www2i/.visual/img_med/dir_152/g_03469.gif
Here is a link to CPR Northern 3100, the real thing unfortunately as I am unaware of any models of the CPR Northerns.
Yes those are the beauties, I just saw a photo of 3100 with elephant ears, both of these are preserved one in the science museum in Ontario and one rotting in a park beside a pipe mill in Regina Sask, thanks, these locos are almost mysteries in Canada, by far the best looking C.P.R. steam locos. thanks guys.
Yes the CPR Northerns are extremely rare, glad to see that Van Hobbies did import them in brass. I followed a couple of e-bay autions on the PFM Vh CPR Selkirks and the early T1’s went for around $700 and the later streamlined engines for less. I would assume the CPR Northerns being rarer will go for more than the Selkirk T1’s
Check your info. 3101 is no longer ‘rotting’, it is under consideration…(I cant give you any more info).
David B
Your thread title, concerning CPR Northern 4-8-2, threw me off a bit: a Northern is a 4-8-4. However, your typo got me wondering, and it seems that the CPR had only two Mountains (4-8-2) too. So the first true transcontinental railway in North America virtually skipped two otherwise popular N. American wheel arrangements, and completely shunned the 2-8-4. [:O] So, lots of 10-Wheelers and Consolidations, plus Mikados and Pacifics, with some Hudsons and Selkirks thrown in. [:D] And other than brass, no correct, as manufactured, versions of any of them. Now that’s under-represented! [swg] At least some of them can be easily kitbashed.
Wayne
You are correct in terminology, I got pretty confused with “mountain” and “northern” Could it be the C.P.R. named the northern a mountain then back again. The C.P.R. did classify it’s locos by there own nomenclature, and they also gave them a number. There was a C.P.R. magazine for employees and inside the back cover was a series of locomotives ( by Omar Lavallee- a CPR historian) with all the specs and a photo, I managed to collect all of them (@24), now if I could just find them, it may straighten this naming thing out, but DOCWAYNE is correct and may have solved the problem, this will take a bit more investigation, thanks to all. By the way, did any American Railroads build their own locomotives???
I get confused with mountain and northern as well. I’m just starting to learn the history of the steam era and what is what. It is weird that CP only had two of those though. Then again CP had lots of Trainmasters and CN only bought one, CN ran theirs long hood forward and CP ran theirs short hood forward. Maybe back then they didn’t want to run the same equipment as the competition?
Not initially.
David B
Didn’t the engineers complain about the fumes and that is why they switched to running the short hood forward? Thats what I read somewhere anyways. If that were true I wonder why CN didn’t do the samething.
Yes. The N&W built some of their own and ther were a few others. IIRC, the last steam loco built for a class one railway in the U.S. of A was a N&W 0-8-0 switcher.
Canadian Pacific, not a “American” railway, built some of it’s steam locos as well.
That’s right, then they rebuilt them around 1960 to run short hood forward.
Nope [;)] A mountain’s always been a 4-8-2 and a Northern’s always been a 4-8-4, and CP hardly had any of either!
Here’s the deal on the K1as. They were one of the last designs from a locomotive designer that was retiring, and while they were good locomotives that found a niche on overnight trains between Toronto and Montreal, there certainly wasn’t a need for them over the entire system. The new motive power designer, H.B. Bowen took over in 1929 and used the frame and boiler for the Selkirks, which were a smash hit in the mountains, as well as issuing a plethora of new locomotive designs, Mikados, Pacifics, and Royal Hudsons as we know them today! These were all much more generally useful and suited to CPR roles than the Northerns.
As for the restoration of 3101, I’m going to say a little more than David. CPR approached Ipsco for a feasibility study on restoration. That’s it in a nutshell, and I won’t say any more!
As has alredy been indicated CPR had 2 Class K1-a Northerns. What I have been told is Samhongsa made 300 Brass reproductions in 1979 in HO scale. 150 were made for PFE and 150 for Van Hobbies. This is a Van Hobbies one that I was lucky enough to get a month or so ago. I’m now in the process in putting in a Head Lamp and Tsunami Heavy Steam Decoder. (which will be later today. I hope.)
This is from
http://www.sciencetech.technomuses.ca/english/whatson/hall_1.cfm
Steam Locomotive Canadian Pacific 3100
Only two locomotives of this type were built by the C.P.R., and both were preserved, no. 3101 being at Regina. In spite of the many technical innovations in their design including the extensive use of nickel steel, they were not considered an unqualified success. Their great weight proved to be a handicap, and they had difficulty in achieving high speed. However, they were familiar sight for more than 25 years at the head end of the heavy Toronto-Montreal night passenger trains. Both locomotives were converted to oil firing in 1956 and finished their working life in Western Canada.
Weight in working order: 329,784 kg (728,000 lbs.)
Length: 29.7 m (97 ft 5 in.)
Height max.: 4.7 m (15 ft 6 in.)
Diam. of driving wheels: 190.5 cm (75 inches)
This is prabably the machine in question:
http://www.sciencetech.technomuses.ca/english/collection/curators.cfm
Just scroll down a little.
(And it’s a 4-8-2)
A feasibility study by the C.P.R., that doesn’t sound too good. And IPSCO admitted the locomotive was in a “deteriorating” condition, that pretty well spells the end to a restoration(remember the selkirk in Calgary) 3101 sat for years with no maintenance, except for a couple of keen locals who should be given medals. Please remember the original intent of IPSCO was to melt it down for pipe. We can only wish…but…
Betamax,
I’ve been to the Museum. 3100 is a 4-8-4, the stairs leading to the cab hide the last axle.
Gorgeous machine, especially up close.
I’ve got pictures somewhere to show it.
Gordon
Thats K-1-a #3100, a 4-8-4. The second axle in the trailing truck is blocked by the stairs leading to the cab. As far as I know, neither of the CPR 4-8-2s survived.
The Pennsylvania built a lot of locos, and, as mentioned, the Norfolk & Western. The CNR built a number of P-5 0-8-0 switchers, the N-5-d and N-4-g Consolidations, 2 S-1-j Mikes, and S-4-a Mikado 3800, the prototype for 5 copies out of Kingston.
Wayne