I need to position some brass rods to create a mechanical joint to be made using solder. If I use CA adhesive to keep the pieces in place, will that interfere with the use of solder to make the joint, or will it “burn off” in the soldering process? Cedarwoodron
It will burn off alright. Make sure you have lots of ventilation. It’s not something you want to breath in or even have the vaopr get in your eyes - it’s that bad, really. Use some small alligator clips, like clip leads, to hold the rods in place, or even some tape. Tape at one end, solder at the other, then remove the tape and solder at the other end where the tape was. If you have the proper size soldering iron with a good clean shiny tip, solding the second half won’t cause the first half to come apart, and you’ll end up with the entire joint soldered together.
If glue is the only way, unless there is tension on the rods, even Elmer’s glue will hold it long enough, although I don;t know about that burnign off. Solder paste is another option.
–Randy
I have been told that gap-filling CA can be used in place of solder to glue metal to metal if the joint doesn’t have to conduct electricity. I absolutely, positively would NOT use it in a way that would give it the chance to contaminate the joint (and asphyxiate the solderer.)
As Randy said, CA is nasty stuff. Even burning a little in an outdoor fireplace produces unacceptable fumes. (Don’t ask how I know this…)
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I would help if you could provide a photo or a good description of what you’re trying to build. There are lots of ways to hold things in place while soldering, but they’re usually pretty specific to the situation.
Wayne
To save the trouble of posting an image, the Walthers scale test car comes with a very cheesy piece of plastic that represents the pipe structure above the car, which is used for signage. I am replacing this piece with one made of metal, and after having bent the wire properly, I also need to position two additional upright “legs” which are connected at the horizontal “pipe”. I tried to pin things down with T-pins, such as one gets from a craft or office supply store; I tried using tape, but then I would have to lay the assembly down on a surface, same as with the t-pins. By using the CA adhesive, I could use my “helping hands” alligator clip holder and tin the pieces better, then make a minimally messy solder joint which I could clean up afterwards with a file. That is my present reasoning for consideration of using the CA adhesive. Cedarwoodron
Well I guess the other alternative is to just use CA, or maybe some epoxy, and forego solderign completely. The adhesive will hold quite securely.
–Randy
So sorta like this:
A great aid for soldering is a sheet of 1/4" thick balsa wood and a box of dressmaker’s pins.
If you require guidelines for the placement of the intermediate supports, you can either draw them directly on the balsa, or on a piece of paper, then pin the paper to the balsa. Next, clean the wire - I prefer to draw it through a folded piece of dry wet/dry-type sandpaper - 800 grit or finer works well - making two or three passes. After you’ve bent the wire appropriately, cut the intermediate supports as required. For brass wire, I use an old X-Acto #11 blade: place the wire on a hard surface (I use glass), then, using the heel of the blade, press down firmly, making sure to hold or otherwise restrain both pieces. This yields a nice clean cut requiring no further dressing.
Next, tin the ends of the two supports and the main railing at the points where the supports will be located, then pin the main railing to the balsa wood. Use a pair of pins for each upright, applying them in an “X” pattern to keep the railing from moving laterally and another two pair to secure the horizontal part. Now, pin the two uprights into position, lining them up atop the drawn lines, then slide them towards the main railing until they make contact. Apply a little flux to one of the joints, then touch the joint with the clean tip of your hot soldering iron. The joint should be completed almost instantly. Before going on to the second joint, place a small wad of wet tissue or paper towel over the just-made joint - this will keep it from coming apart when you apply heat to solder the other upright in place. When the railing has been completed, remove the pins and use files to clean-up any excess solder, then use a suitable solvent to remove any flux residue.
The balsa sheet with pins was
Thanks for the procedural explanation of your method, Wayne. This is my first real effort at non-electrical soldering and I want to get a routine going that will serve other similar custom efforts. I tried foam core board (project board), but it was not stable enough for the longer pins. Balsa sounds like the better choice! Cedarwoodron
Wayne,
Those stock pens look awfully clean.
As far as CA and soldering, it works, but causes a lot of very nasty fumes. If you’re quick enough I like the idea of soldering paste possibly holding them as well as pins/balsa wood
Richard
Yeah, the picture was taken just after they’d been installed. I’ve since added some livestock, all seemingly house-broken, as the pens remain clean. [:-^]
I’ll eventually get around to weathering them - only a few of the posts are actually set into the “ground”, so the entire assembly is removeable.
Wayne
I also use a piece of balsa wood to layout a drawing or photocopy of what I’m going to solder, then bend the wire following the diagram (which has be glued to the balsa with Spray Mount). Then I tape all the pieces down and solder everything together. I use flux, you can use paste flux (from RS) or Tix liquid flux, (from Micromark). Be sure to clean with some iso alcohol and a stiff brush when you’re done.
Do not use CA in the joint that you’re going to solder, when you burn it, it wull leave carbon deposits that won’t take solder, you’ll end up with ugly weak joins.
Here’s a couple of pix from my ALCo C-415 build (see link below):
Before clean up
Finished model
Fumes from CA glue are extremely toxic. I used the fumes from the glue to raise fingerprints from items taken from a crime scene. The (whatever) was placed in a wooden box that had a glass window in the side, CA was released in a container, usually a small plastic bowl, and then the door and seams were taped shut. It was allowed to cook for 24 hours, and then removed. If there were any latent prints they were then lifted with oversize pieces of scotch tape. When the box was opened, it was done while wearing a cartridge respirator, and eye goggles. The fumes can also cause eye damage.The opening took place outside, away from people. I did not always use proper protection when I did this, and other equally interesting operations, and now am the proud recipient of COPD and Emphysema. Epoxy is another item you need to be very careful of. Hope this helps, Herrinchoker
Wayne and Jay!
Pretty good modeling indeed.
Now Wayne, please allow us to view the process for applying ‘weathering’ to your stock pens and tell us what materials you will use. I’m sure you all understand what I mean by ‘weathering’! If you don’t, then try walking closely past a loaded stock car! I had to explain that to my wife a few years ago when we were waiting to board the ferry from the Manitoulin Island to Tobermory. There was a cattle truck waiting to board which Dianne wanted to investigate. I had to tell her to watch out for the flying bits and spray! She didn’t get the message until she got up real close.[(-D] Yuk!!
Dave
Edit: I apologise to the OP. I wasn’t trying to hijack the thread. I couldn’t resist ribbing Wayne on his recipe for cow **it!
Actually, with the stockyards so close to the river, work gangs “muck 'em out” regularly, and wheelbarrow the results down to the bank and dump it in. Lake Erie is only a few hundred yards downstream, and what harm could it possibly do? [:-^] After all, in my late '30s modelling period, the rules weren’t so stifling of creativity. The Government inspectors were more interested in ensuring that the pens got a regular spraying with lime to keep things sanitary, and it helped to keep them looking sharp, too. [swg]
Wayne
Wayne
Heck of a way to make a living - mucking out stock yards!
I’ll say it again - YUK!! YUK YUK!!!
At least their sinuses would have been clear![(-D]
Your precision is amazing!
Dave
Well, you guys sure cured me of any ideas using CA as a “holding” method for mechanical soldering. I only wish I could do jobs as well as Jay shows with his C-415 project! Pins, balsa board and a measured diagram it is! Cedarwoodron
With a jig to hold the parts put some silver solder paste on the joint and hit it with enough heat and the solder will flow quite rapidly. Solder paste that has a little silver in it will make a stronger joint than just regular solder paste. A small micro torch or solder gun.
I have a tube of solder paste for some years that I keep in the freezer that has around maybe three percent silver in it and rosin flux. I take a little dab out as required.
Rich
Before you do all that complex soldering why not do a test weld using Loctite Superglue. From what I’ve experienced it’s very strong, sets up quickly and if fairly easy to use. Just make sure the spout hole is small so you don’t get too much flow!
That was exactly the CA (blue bottle) I was using. Other respondents have described the adverse results of CA being in contact with the high temp of a soldering iron, so I will err on the side of caution on this one. Besides, the CA was applied to a butt joint, where the two rods touched, so only the glue was acting as a connector. I managed the job with pins and balsa and the solder is definitely stronger than the CA. Cedarwoodron