I’ve purchased Caboose 202S (sprung) ground throws. Yesterday a visitor asked me if I intended using the version with the spdt contacts built into the base. I hadn’t been aware of them until now and wondered if the only potential issues with NOT having the contacts built in is that short wheel based locomotives might short out and stop on Walther’s Shinohara turnouts? Any other concerns about not having the contact included version? If I should find I need to power the frogs later, am I doomed to having 20 toggle switches on my facia in front of the division yard? Will I need to use Tortoises? (seems easier than adding micro switches under the bench top, etc. plus I"d have the future option of adding Hares or Wabbits, etc. What to do with all of those 202 S ground throws if I need to switch later? Any easy fixes? Is the best avenue to just wait and see if I have any locos with issues in floating/dead frogs? Is the easiest thing to do to just order returnable locos and just keep the ones that have no problem with the turn outs? Confused… Thanks very much for any clarification and ideas on how to proceed. I’ll be laying my yard out by Dec.
I have 20+ Shinohara (Walthers) switches and use Caboose Hobbies ground throws on each. I have added a few ground throws with the contacts on trouble-prone switches. The problem with Shinoharas is electrical contact with the rails when the switch is thrown. The little tabs beneath the moving rails are sporatic in their contract and tend to short out when being thrown, wreaking havoc with DCC layouts (such as mine). The Caboose Hobbies contacts insure better contact but power is still sometimes lost where the moving rails attach near the frog. Much better to install the throws before the layout is done! If you have not purchased track as yet, consider Peco switches instead–totally reliable and you do not even need to add switch throws. They have a built-in mechanism. In short (no pun intended), even the Caboose Hobbies throws with contacts won’t solve all the contact problems but they certainly help. Of course, you must solder a “neutral” wire to each switch which will then being either positive or negative depending on the position of the switch.
TRNJ
TRNJ, Thanks very much for your feedback. I already have purchased all of my Walthers/Shinohara track and my 202S ground throws. Would your recommendation, then, be to go ahead and install my 202S throws,(as I lay track) and see whether or not I have any problems or install tortoises instead? Some friends around here leave their frogs dead or “floating” and as long as their locos run through the turn outs that’s all they’ve done, IF I’m understanding them correctly… If the little copper tabs will act up with the turn outs eventually, anyway, would the tortoises in your opinion be a better choice? I’d have to solder a neutral wire with either the Caboose spdt throws or with the Tortoises, yes? So, TRNJ, the only issue with dead frogs is NOT just the stalling of short wheel based locos? It’s the loss of power routing over time, also? I’m trying to decide what is best to do from the outset. I can return the 202S if I don’t open them…I’d like walk around hand/ground throws, but if I have to wire in a bunch of spdt/toggles and micro switches anyway (with the 202S) I might as well go with Tortoises? I’d like to do all of this once and be done, if possible. You’ve clarified a few things for me, thanks very much, but still confused about the other things I’ve mentioned above. Can you tell me more? I appreciate your help.
See this section of Allan Gartner’s Wiring for DCC site on a way to make the Walthers turnouts more reliable. http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches_walthers.htm With this modification, that little tab that slides under the adjacent stock rail will not matter.
I previously used Atlas turnouts and never powered the frogs. Nothing stalled on them, but then even my smallest switcher had 8-wheel pickup. Powering the frog won’t solve the problem of the little tab wearing out - the frog is completely isolated from all rails. The modification (a short jumper wire) linked above will solve the problem of the point and closure rails going dead over time.
–Randy
Capt. The easiest thing would be to exchange the ground throws for the ones with the spdt switches built in. But as others have said I too have used Atlas turn outs (insulated frogs) with no stall issues at all.
The only locos that are really affected by a dead frog mostly, are older locos that do not have all-wheel pickup and small 4-wheel industrial-types, like the Athearn Hustler. Both can be helped with the addition of Tomar or custom wipers.
To me, it seems to make more sense cost, time & looks wise, to improve the offending loco rather than paying more for and putting up with the looks of the switched ground throw. I’ve been using the basic 202s for twenty years withou the need to liven a frog. I have only two locos that fit the description above and I fixed them.
I’ve used Caboose Industries ground throws both with and without the electrical contacts and found the ones with electrical contacts to be unreliable. The bronze contact wiper in them is very difficult to get properly adjusted, and they require a rather large hole drilled in your layout for the wires to go into.
I’ve tried bending their electrical contacts at a 90 degree angle so they would lay flat on top of the layout instead of drilling the large hole, and I’ve tried cutting them shorter, but neither method helped much.
Assembly is very tricky and the contact strip pressing on the plastic piece that is supposed to hold it in place causes it to pop out if you don’t glue it.
There has to be a better mousetrap.
You received several good replies about the Caboose Hobbies throws. This forum is really helpful! Most of my 202’s give me zero trouble if adjusted correctly (much “tweaking” necessary and one piece of ballast can interrupt the contact) and the few I’ve added SPDT throws to are O.K. I do agree that the SPDT contacts are not well-engineered and not always reliable. If you have the $$ and do not care about hand-throwing the switches, use the Tortoises and return the others if possible. Hope things go well for you!
TRNJ
I tried Atlas #4 turnouts on my layout and had problems with stalling and the tender of my 0-8-0 picking the frog. I then opted to go with Fast Tracks #4.5 & #5 turnouts (live frogs) and CI 220S ground throws, with the built in contacts for switching polarity. They both have worked very well for me; neither of the aforementioned problems being an issue.
Tom
Bet the wheels are out of gauge, even slightly - or their pickup system puts pressure on the wheels pushign them to one side. Every problem I had with Atlas turnouts ended up being traced back to out of gauge wheelsets. Even on the one where I ran a brass screw in and attempted to solder a wire to (and managed to pop the frog compeltely off - which I glued back on with CA) never gave any trouble. Even taking the diverging route at ludicrous speed with crazy wheel arrangements like a GG-1, both AHM ones and Broadway.
That said, I’m still using FastTracks on the new layout [:D]
–Randy
Thanks as always everyone. Yes this forum and it’s members is/are fantastic! Modelmaker51, you’re advice in particular sounds like the avenue most attractive to me at this point… pre drill holes for Tortoises before layiing the yard track, use the 202S-adapt any locos that give trouble lst and then as a last resort install Tortoises. It seems like all of the articles I’ve read about installing and wiring spdt switches and or micros switches make the Tortoises the easiest insatll plus I’ll have others already on my hidden track. So is DOES sound like stalling locos are the ONLY problem with dead frogs? If that’s the case, I think I’ll try the above path if I decide against all Tortoises to begin with. Thanks for the feedback guys on the Caboose spdt contact included model. Can’t express how much I appreciate the patient and detailed responses to my (many) questions! 
I do my best to read up in mags, books, online, but sometimes without real life people’s experiences and discussion it all remains confusing. I’ve seen the wiring for dcc article about removing the tabs. I was kind of loathe to do that…I’ll re read it (and that entire section) now that I understand more about all of this and have been made aware of the spdt/live frog issues. TRNJ, thanks for coming back with the additional clarification. Thanks again.