CAD Programs for designing a Layout.

Model Railroader Layouts and layout building
21

RTS is short for RightTrack Software.

It was no easier to use than WinRail, it was just hamstrung by only offering Atlas components.

Those are unauthorized copies with no support, so caveat downloader.

An unsuspecting newbie who downloads one of those versions and finds that it crashes or won’t open after a Microsoft upgrade and leaves them unable to access their files would be in a bad spot.

By the way: A friend lost several weeks’ worth of work when a Microsoft OS upgrade rendered RTS version 10 unstable (and unrecoverable). He had to re-do the entire layout from scratch. Sometimes “free” costs more than one expects.

22

With all the twists, turns, confusion, up-grades and lost data caused by a lack of forward and backward thinking by the software developers, makes me wonder why anyone would use CAD, to design anything as simple as a model railroad? Radius templates, compass’, straight edges, pencil and paper are still easy enough to find and the method has worked without up-grades since the beginnings of the mechanical age. Call me old fashion and a dinosaur; but, this is the system of choice for me!

I know that CAD is a powerful tool, necessary to business and here to stay! I just don’t need; or, want it!

23

Speaking as a fellow dinosaur, I love the tactile feel of an old-fashioned pencil on good-quality paper. A compass that actually punches a little hole at the center of a curve. A protractor and a 30/60 and a couple French curves and a simple straightedge. Some sandpaper to make a really fine point.

“I love the smell of pencil shavings in the morning!”

Tom

24

[quote user=“NP2626”]

cuyama

PM Railfan
Thats why I mentioned it as RTS

RTS is short for RightTrack Software.

It was no easier to use than WinRail, it was just hamstrung by only offering Atlas components.

PM Railfan
heres a link for 4 versions of RTS…

Those are unauthorized copies with no support, so caveat downloader.

An unsuspecting newbie who downloads one of those versions and finds that it crashes or won’t open after a Microsoft upgrade and leaves them unable to access their files would be in a bad spot.

By the way: A friend lost several weeks’ worth of work when a Microsoft OS upgrade rendered RTS version 10 unstable (and unrecoverable). He had to re-do the entire layout from scratch. Sometimes “free” costs more than one expects.

With all the twists, turns, confusion, up-grades and lost data caused by a lack of forward and backward thinking by the software developers, makes me wonder why anyone would use CAD, to design anything as simple as a model railroad? Radius templates, compass’, straight edges, pencil and paper are still easy enough to find and the method has worked without up-grades since the beginnings of the mechanical age. Call me old fashion and a dinosaur; but, this is the system of choice for me!

I kno

25

I like pencil and graph paper for layout design too. There is very good reason for this. I can scale everything out and draw the room boundaries and then visually imagine where layout components go like curves, turns, yeads etc. I can do this better with an 11x17 sheet of graph paper scaled out, better than a computer screen which I can’t necessarily put a scale rule up to and meausure 1 inch = whatever scale.

26

And I just now tossed my layout plans drawn on my drawing board 26 years ago! Needed my drawing board to do another project and I had no use for the old plans anymore; so, I threw them. Sometimes the old ways of doing things have merit!

27

Nothing wrong with paper and pencil as long as you can school yourself to draw the turnout angles properly and sme with curves. It’s too easy to ‘cheat’ on paper and end up with somthign that won;t fit or, if it does fit, won’t run well becauseof artificial kinks.

-Randy

28

I’ve been using xtrackcad for years and although it has a bit of a learning curve, it does have great features like test running with trains which is great for figuring how many exact lengths of cars can fit in a siding etc. Another great feature is your able to add elevations and it gives you exact measurements for height and I’ve used this with great success on my last layout for setting up a perfect 2% grade from 0 elevation down to a below staging yard. If your track plan fits on the benchwork you design for your room then the railplan you make can be printed and placed on the benchwork, mind you this only works if there is a solid top benchwork because obviously the paper has to be layed out.

29

I haven’t seen it mentioned here but when I was designing my layout I used CadRail from Sandia Software.

http://www.sandiasoftware.com/

I made several version upgrades but not since V 7. I believe they are up to V10 now. I don’t know about Win7 compatibility but it still runs fine on an old XP machine I have.

The ability to make LAYERS is a great advantage of CAD programs. You can experiment with various design elements on several layers and make changes without affecting other layers. You can also do scenery (tunnels, bridges) structures and even your buss wiring and power districts on individual layers so if you want to work on certain details it won’t change anything else.

Another advantage is the ability to make changes, say you want to make ALL your 24" radii to 25.75 or so. You can do it with a few mouse clicks and everything adjusts automatically.

One place I had to do some tweaking was where a commercial turnout, say Walthers Shinohara code 83, if placed as a crossover I would have to trim an inch or so off the diverging route in order to maintain a 2" track center.

Yes, the learning curve was slightly steep but after a few tutorials and playing with small segments it wasn’t so bad.

Presently, I have a need to print and laminate some track diagrams to help operators through some of the interlocking plants and junctions. A CAD program will make it nice to do just that. I want to map out my power districts, too since, as I add scenery, I am covering over the notes that I had drawn on the roadbed in regards to gaps and feeders and which is rail A, etc.

Another old producer of RR software was Abracadata (remember them?) they are DBA Liquidateher or something:

http://www.theliquidateher.com/railroad-windows.html

I can not say if any of their products are worthwhile or not but I hav

30

Actually Atlas’ RTS is available as a free download. I don’t know which version is available from all sites, but Google “atlas rts” and there are many hits.

Speaking of RTS, I was wondering if anyone had successfully ported the Atlas Library to a Win 7 64bit compatible file format. Long ago i purchased the complete Atla library and RTS version 8 from Atlas, and have been running it in an XP virtual machine on my Win 7 Pro 64 bit machine. I recently contacted LOGOS Library software (Atlas must have uased their software for the Library) and they got me upgraded to Logos 5 (that is Win 7 Pro 64 bit compatible) but they are now a Bible Library company, and don’t seem to know anything about the old Atla Library. Just thought i would ask. i will post this as a new thread. Thanx!

31

Sure it just doesn’t run? I could swear I’ve installed RTS since I’ve been running Win 7 (and always 64 bit, I never install Win 7 on any of my machines usign ther 32 bit version) and it just worked, without resorting to the XP VM compatibility mode.

As a matter of fact, just did a search to find a copy to download, and installed version 10 on my Win 7 64-bit laptop and it works fine, simply installed like any other app, no comptobility mode or VM.

–Randy

32

I don’t have a Staples near by, however I found Office Max in Bemidji, MN has a 22.5 X 17 inch graph paper tablet. Cost me $22.00 and not $7.00, however; but, this size will work for my needs.

33

I went over to my local Staples to pick up a pad, but there were out of stock.

Typical.

I think Staples is going the way of the LHS.

So, I will stick with my pad of one quarter inch squares.

Even with the larger pads of 1 inch squares, I still need to tape pieces together to achieve the size of my intended layout. And the smaller squares give you a better opportunity to correctly and accurate place turnout, structures, etc.

Rich

34

Rich, The pad I bought at Office Max has grids on the 1/4 inch and highlighted grids on the inch. However, even with this larger graph paper, I will also need to tape pieces together to get the full length I need.

35

Just to clarify a small point, my CAD program (3rdPlanIt) has grids on it as well. The program has main grid lines which are slightly bolder, and secondary grid lines which are a bit thinner. I use a 1’ main and a 4" sub grid but you can set them up however you want, or turn them off.

There are some other things that are very helpful. As has already been mentioned, the ability to set up layers allows me to zero in on any specific details. I have about 35 layers in my plan so I can see things separately like the main line, secondary track, roads, structures, benchwork, room shape, buses… you name it. When you put them all together (or however many layers you want to see at the same time) the layers can be shown in different colours so you can tell still things apart.

The program also has XYZ axis with scales so I can see exactly where a specific item starts and stops. For example, in 3D I can see how high my mountains will look.

To some that seems like overkill which it may be. However I can justify using CAD in two simple ways:

First, I can’t remember how many potential problems the program has drawn to my attention. For example, when I build my bench work I am fairly sure that I won’t be blocking track access to the lower level staging. No cutting and chopping to get a train through. I have a bit of a hard time envisaging things in three dimensions. CAD has helped me enourmously in that regard.

Second, CAD is fun! I have spent many hours playing with design options. I didn’t have layout space available so I wasn’t avoiding doing the actual work.

Please don’t get me wrong. I admire those who can draw a plan on paper and make it work. CAD just works better for me personally.

NP2626:

Sorry, I hijacked your thread a bit.

Dave

36

I started this thread thinking it might be fun to mess with CAD. I have messed with AutoCAD when I was working; but, never got very far with it.

Computer stuff is maybe easier for you younger guys and at one time 25 years ago when I first started with computers software seemed far more intuitive (easier to learn) than it is now. It certainly may be my age, don’t know. I simply find it easier to use what I know. For me, it is more fun, too!

37

Dave, any way that you can post some screen shots of the CAD results, showing what the track diagrams look like?

Rich

38

Have you seen any of my track plans I’ve posted? Those are all 3rd Planit. For more finished ones - most of the ones Byron Henderon posts are also drawn with 3rd Planit.

I’ve never gone so far as to finish the scenery (except for that oen example I posted about doing the main line crossing ove rmy branch line) in CAD, but I do finish the plans. My older ones are on my web site.

3rd Planit lets you set up the room space with grids in feet and inches (or meters for those metrically inclined) or in Armstrong Squares. Or no grid at all, although I very moch prefer having the grid lines visible as a guide to placing tracks, especially along fixed room boundaries.

–Randy

39

Rich:

Took me a while to figure out how to do it but here are a few screen shots of my 3rdPlanIt track plans.

The first is showing all the components of the plan except for the staging area:

I can’t seem to copy the layer menu but here is a partial list of what the colours represent:

Blue track - main line

Grey track - secondary track

Green track - arrival/departure track

Pink track - drill track

Red track - caboose track and program track

Brown track - HOn30 mine track

Red structure outlines - structures that I have acquired

Purple structure outlines - structures to be acquired

Brown circles - tall yard lights

Green circles - short wood pole yard lights

Grey circles - metal street lights

Green lines - these simply show dimensions from one point to another point. I use them for checking things like reach in distances, aisle width…whatever

Red numbers - rather then type in descriptions for all of the structures I have just numbered each of the structures. I have a listing (done in pencil by the way) of what all the buildings are and what stage they are at in construction

Black numbers - control panels. I have a diagram for each control panel:

Here is a view of the staging track only:

Here is a 3D view with trees added in to give an idea of the topography:

I hope that gives you a bit of an idea of what the CAD program can do.

Dave

40

Dave, thanks for posting those track diagrams. Great stuff, I appreciate it.

Rich