Walthers sells some nice looking F-units in the Santa Fe warbonnet passsenger scheme. They offer an AB set and an additional A unit to make an ABA set.
Problem with that. Santa Fe did not operate Passenger F’s in ABA sets. A three-unit set would instead be an ABB set.
Santa Fe passenger A units did not have steam generators (They did have the steam pipe connnections however) . Only the B-units had them.
When Santa Fe purchased its passenger F3’s, it bought ABBA sets. When they purchased passenger F7’s, it bought ABB sets. As a result it had more B-units than A-units.
Eventually, the early F3’s were modernized to look very much like the newer F7’s with stainless steel grills covering the air intakes.
Typical consists in the 1950’s would be AB, ABB, or ABBA. By the 1960’s, some trains were combined into long trains, and 5 units, 6 units, or more would be common. Commonly, the A-units would be leading the consist facing forward. For example, a 5-unit consist would be AABBB.
There may have been a rare exception to these practices, but I have never seen it. Also, I have never seen a single Santa Fe passenger A-unit or an AA consist hauling a passenger train (F-units) on the Santa Fe.
Conclusion: … Walthers should sell extra B-units allowing modelers to assemble prototypical Santa Fe passneger F-unit consists.
I don’t model the ATSF, and I will not buy Walthers F units any more because of the gear ratio change, but it would seem odd if they are not selling seperate B units?
Intermountain has ATSF F3’s, A’s and B’s in stock, different numbers available, and they sell them individually. And they have done the F7’s in the past, so they are out there to be found.
Personally, I would go with Intermoutain or Genesis rather than Walthers.
Yours is the first comment I can recall reading about not liking the Walthers F units because the gear ratio. Sure, I remember some of the P2K loco’s made by LL that people complained about but never the F units.
If you guys bought the Walthers ATSF Super Chief F7s. That came in a ABBA sets to model a prototypical consist. Then you wouldn’t have problems with these F units.
Plus I was also outraged about the ABA consist set. And I some what model the Santa Fe.
Don’t get me wrong here. Garry asked a reasonable question about the obvious need for extra B units in this case. I agree with his conclusion that Walthers should have extra B units available. They’re obviously missing potential sales here. But…
Outrage?
I think reality TV and that mud-wrestling event that comes up every 4 years are devaluing our culture and langauge. This is, after all, just a hobby. I can see disappointment, or desire for additional production to make up for this B unit gap, or motivation to even paint and decal additional B units to make up for this oversight.
Outrage, though, seems a bit over the top.
Look at it this way. All Walthers did was selectively compress those ABBBA or other longer consists to ABA. Yes, I can understand why some definitely want the ABB consist, per Garry’s thoughtful comments. I just don’t understand outrage.
All I know is that when I was really little (1960s) we used to ride the train from Chicago to Los Angeles and one of my fondest memories was before we boarded the train my grandfather and I would walk up to the front to see the locomotives. We would walk past silver car after silver car, then we would come to these really loud cars which had motors in them (B units) and then we would get to the locomotive (A unit). Yup it was always just one single A unit at the lead and it looked so cool with the bright red war bonnet, like it had gone so fast that the nose was glowing red hot from the friction. ABB was the latch up that I remember. I never remember seeing an A unit anywhere except in the lead, and never two A units.
Thanks to each person who commented in this thread. … I grew up near Chicago, and family trips were by train. Santa Fe was among the railroads we rode on.
When I was a teen age railfan, I saw many Santa Fe passenger trains. (Most train watching, however, was CB&Q close to my house.)
Below is a 1952 EMD builders photo of an ATSF F7 ABB. Later, Santa Fe added an extra headlight, grab irons over the front, and MU connections.
I have been following this thread, but no comment until now…I saw that engine You just posted, running past Dearborn station tracks. I lived less than two miles from downtown Chgo. starting in 1942…didn’t move to the burb’s, until the 80’s…if I had a camera then… If You liked passenger trains…Chicago was the place to about see them all…any Road name. LOL.
Walthers is a very good company, and I am pleased with many of their products which are now on my layout. I look forward ot acquiring more in the future.
I would hope they would read this thread, and take it as constructive criticism. Their newly announced 1954 El Capitan would be perfect if it had a 300 Class F7 ABB hauling it.
Thanks again to others who commented in this thread.
You got Me all wound up reading this thread…so much so that I dug out all My passenger equipment that I had stored for the past 25yrs. All Athearn A’s and B’s, In the process of installing the dress-up kits, (grabs, railings etc.) that I had bought back in the 80’s but never really put them on. I also had ordered two Walther’s Proto F3 A’s ATSF (DC) DCC ready which are Excellent runner’s and all detail, grabrails, interior w/figures, etc. already installed, grabs are stainless steel. For a 101.00 I thought that was a fantastic deal…not a flaw on any of them. Walthers has really come a long way in the past few yrs. with exceptional models and I will continue to be a customer. Also picked up quite a few of their Walthers Mainline ATSF passenger cars…again flawless, with diaphragms that work, spring loaded 25.98 on sale,metal wheelsets.
I would be willing to bet…there will be F7 B’s in the near future…a lot of Modeler’s have been asking.
I found this great video of a ABBA ATSF consist running on the Colorado Model Railroad Museum layout any one interested. There are also other 1950’s/60’s video’s of most all consists talked about in this thread:
While I understand your irked-ness about Walthers marketing decision with these Santa Fe Warbonnet Fs, doesn’t the AB & A packages allow for some multiple “correct” configurations?
You could purchase two AB sets and have the option of an ABBA or two distinct ABB sets; depending on which A-unit you have for your lead unit. And, assuming that Walthers offers more than two A-unit road numbers in their AB sets, another AB set would yield multiple distinct looks of an AB, ABB, ABBA, and AABBB configuration because of the various road numbers of the separate A- & B-units; not a bad thing in my eyes.
Also, three sets of ABs would allow you the option of running a separate AB and a ABB or ABBA unit on your layout. That’s quite a few possibilities by just mixing and matching.
I agree that having the option of purchasing just a B-unit would be nice. Perhaps manufacturers are looking at those lone [powered] B-units like they seemingly are with the dummy units: They just don’t sell very well.
Still hoping that someone will release an HO set of the NYC FTs in the unique “cat whisker” scheme:
Most likely I’ll need to paint and detail some A-unit shells myself.
