I would like to read some opinions on the calling of all signals other than Clear over the radio channel. Also any comments on Crew Resource Mangement would be helpful
I think NS policy is to call ALL signal indications and I would agree that that is a good idea. It’s lets anyone working near the track know that a train is coming, especially the lonely signal maintainer who is working under lone worker protection and may inadvertently have his.her back to the tracks for a long time. (It also helps the railfan[:D])
As far as crew resource management, I’m guessing you would like to see the conductor call out the signals on the radio with the engineer answering back off-air to keep them both active and involved (awake) in the safe movement of the train.
Somebody want to give me a thumbnail sketch on what this is?
Mook
NS does call all Signals, especially on the Pittsburgh Line, they will call the location by MP(numbered on Signal) such as this…NS 23W, Signal 2547, Three West (or W) Clear, out! If it is a CP, they call out the name, such as NS 10N… 1 East, MO, Clear! Out! One thing NS did stop doing, at least on the Pennsy Route in Pa, was responding over the radio to defect detectors, unless obviously. the detector found a problem. Conrail did not call signals, but they called all detectors, usually repeating what the detector said…For example, Lilly Detector. ’ Conrail…Lilly, Pennsylvania…Track One…No defects! Total axle count 438, train speed one-seven…over? Crew responds " Conrail PIAL, Engine 6424, Lilly no defects, Out! NS changed these to simply say NS Detector, MP 253.1…track X…No defects! Crew does not answer it unless it finds a problem. So, NS traded off calling detectors, for calling signals. Dave Williams http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nsaltoonajohnstown
Mook
A discussion about whether train crews should transmit over the radio what the signal tells them like, “approach Mile Post xx.x” or, “restricting C.P. _____”. The assumption is that every railroad employee is carrying or near a radio on the same channel to hear it. Some crews do this, some don’t. Some railroads require it, some don’t.
I have my scanner on now and am listening while working. NS here in NW Indiana calls signals, as does the CSX.
CSX is very formal in the calling…usually the road number of the engine, the signal number, and the train symbol…in that order, including the suffix for the date of the train. For example…CSX1234, MP222.4, Q149-15 has a clear indication.
NS is much more informal…177 has clear at both ends of Nickle.
NS also is informal in signal indications “clear out of the pass” instead of “diverging clear” is a common one.
I would certainly think it would help keep everyone on their toes and attentive.
ed
Calling Signals and entrance to DTC blocks is the most Safety oriented Rule change that has come down the pike in my 40 years of railroading.
The number of collisions and ‘track car’ incidents that have been avoided is almost beyond counting.
The fact that trains and M of W vehicldes are operated by human beings and human beings make mistakes, big mistakes, the calling of signals and blocks gives all ontrack personnel an additional opportunity to discover the error of their, or someone else’s, ways before the mistake ends up in metal to metal contact.
I imagine that in multitrack very dense operations, like say the Corridor Phily-NY, this isn’t done because it might actually be confusing. Or maybe they just do it Midnight - 6AM?
Do UP and BNSF call signals?
Ah - maybe this is the question I should have asked!
Moo
Yes, at least undr some conditions UP crews are required to call signals more restrictive than clear. They also have to note the indication and location of such signals in their written trip report.
I was just at a meeting today, and the MOP (Manager of Operating Practices–used to be a Road Foreman of Engines) told about a recent incident in whihc a signal was misinterpreted. He said he separated the engineer and conductor, and asked each of them which signal they had passed last, and what it said. Got two different answers. That’s not good–had they been “on the same page” they probably wouldn’t have made the mistake they made.
When running road trains conductors are required to fill out a conductors life critical signal log sheet. I don’t mind doing it at all because it gives the engineer and myself piece of mind. Sometimes you just forget what signal you saw and it is very reassuring to just look down at the log sheet. On my sub of the CSX most signals have town names or street names, etc. I’d would call a signal like this: CSX 471 northboud clear Bismark, Q596 out.
Back in the late 60s, I worked for the NYC and operating rules then required everyone in the cab of any train to call all signals as soon as they were sighted. They were not however called over the radio.
The rule was strictly interpretted to mean that everyone would call the rule book name (indication) of the signal and nothing else. I recall our boss hearing another trainee call something like “High Green” instead of “Clear” and the trainee was given a short, sharp lecture on the spot. Very embarrassing. Glad it wasn’t me.
yes, on most service units.
rrnut, calling a clear out of the pass on NS isn’t necessarily informal. In many locations on NS, the crew receives a clear indication out of passing tracks and not a diverging clear. So, I daresay the crew is calling the correct signal and not calling it informally.
If you want to nit pick, here on the CP anyway there is a difference between calling and announcing signals, not sure about other railways.
The crew is required to call all signals, meaning when they approach any signal, everyone has to say “clear signal” or “clear to stop signal.”
However, crews are required to announce signals to and at controlled locations.
Announce is over the radio, call is just saying the signal indication to one another.
Controlled locations are anything such as a cross over between main tracks or a signalled siding.
So it would sound like this if you were passing the controlled location.
CP 9802 East clear signal to Yale, out.
then
CP 9802 East clear signal at Yale, out.
or, if you were going to take the siding for a meet.
CP 9802 East clear to medium signal to Yale, out
then
CP 9802 East medium to stop signal at Yale taking the siding, out.
then when the train you were to meet passes you…
CP 9802 East medium to clear signal leaving the siding at Yale, out.
If you were to have to main tracks and you were crossing over -
CP 9802 East clear to medium signal to Hatzic, on the North Track, out.
then
CP 9802 East medium to clear signal at Hatzic crossing over from the North Track to the South Track, out.
That’s how it works on the CP in CTC anyway.
i think the conductors writen signal log is just a great lakes divistion thing becoues we dont do that on the bailtimore service lane…
csx engineer
calling signals is up to the railroad…conrail never called signals…but did awnser defect detectors…alot of that i was told is due to the 1 channel radio system that conrail used intsed of 2 channels like csx… on conrail…the dispatcher used the same channel as the trains used all the time… and it was just to confussing for the dispatcher to have all the trains with in an ear shot calling all the signals…now csx uses 2 channels…meaning that the trains work on 1 channel…and the dispatcher is called on another channel… also the dispatcher can call a train on the road channel if thier is a need for that crew to get some information form the dispatcher…but most of the time when they call you on the road channel…they tell you to come to the dispatchers channel so your not clogging up the road channel …
so odds are if your not hearing any signals being called anytime the railroad might not have the rule that requiers you to call them
csx engineer
CSX has not changed ex Conrail territory over to the two channel system. The dispatchers are still on the regular road channels.
Thru the haze comes the question…
So if I am going down the tracks between Lincoln & Omaha, on BNSF, each time I see a lighted signal, other than green, I either have to tell my conductor or say something on the radio? Do I have that right?