Hi Folks,
I finally have space for a new layout for my 18 HO scale locomotives and 70 different cars acquired during the 60’s and 70’s. Can I update the cars and engines to todays couplers(knuckle)? Do I have to get all new engines if I change to a DCC system?
Thanks
cf:
Sure, you can upgrade couplers. Kadee has great how-to info here:
http://www.kadee.com/conv/convpl.htm
You can also DCC-ify most of your old locos. What kind are they? In simplest terms, you just insulate both motor brushes and connect a decoder between them and the electrical pickup.
If your happy with what you have as far as locos and freight, you can update them. Freight cars can be updated easy with better wheels, trucks, and couplers. Now as far as the loco’s are concerned you can upgrade most motors, lights convert to DCC and detail them, depending on the make or model.
Some of the older locos can be expensive to do all the upgrades, but then again buying new can be expensive to, so your going to have to do the plus and minus work and see what you can afford.
Good luck, and search the forum for info on upgrades of the loco’s
If the engine does not run good on DC power, don’t bother converting it to DCC. You would need to fix what is causing the running problem. It will only run worse on DCC if it runs bad on DC.
http://www.ppw-aline.com/ Proto Power West sells some motor upgrades for various engines. The newer motors pull less power than some of the older ones did. There are not differences in a DCC engine and a DC engine as far as the motor is concerned. However, the motors have become more efficient over the years. PPW (and others) carry replacement wheels for the older Athearn locos. Upgrading the wheels to the (now standard) nickle-silver variety might be another option. Otherwise, you will just need to clean your wheels more often.
Decoders can be had for as low as $15. If you buy them in bulk, you can get them for a couple dollars cheaper. Digitrax sells a harness (included with some decoders) specifically for the older Athearn locos. With this harness, you will not need to do any soldering to install a decoder. If you do not hook up any lights, there are only 4 wires to hook up anyways to convert an engine to DCC. 2 go to the wires and 2 to the power pickups.
The Kadee couplers might get confusing. There are a BUNCH of part #'s available. The most common coupler is the #5.
Life-Like recently released a knuckle style coupler that will replace the old horn hook truck mounted couplers that were common on the Like-Like and Tyco trains. For the most part, all “knuckle style couplers” will couple up with each other. I don’t think they will compare with the Kadee’s as far as quality, but they will make converting the cars that came with the “train sets” easier. In the long run, you would want to get rid of the truck mounted couplers with body mounted couplers,
Coupler conversion is straight forward. Kadee makes knuckle couplers to fit anything ever manufactured. Their website has lists of what fits what. Changing couplers is also straighforward, on most stuff. Usually you just open the coupler box, remove the existing coupler (NMRA horn hook presumably) and install the Kadee. At worst you have to drill and tap a hole to mount a Kadee coupler box.
DCC decoders can be installed in nearly anything. If there is room, you can get the decoder in. Plenty of rolling stock and locomotives were fine runners in the '60’s and are still fine runners today. As long as the stuff runs well and looks decent, it’s well worth it. I have a few oldies from that far back myself.
And, kitbashing projects, involving extra details, repaint, weathering, and mechanical tuneup are pleasurable modeling opportunities for many model rails.
My original locos and rolling stock were acquired in the 50’s and early 60’s. The good news is that I haven’t failed yet in any of my rolling stock conversions. Mostly, I’ve removed the horn-hooks and replaced them with body-mounted Kadees. In a few cases, I’ve replaced the wheels and/or the trucks. Some of the couplers were truck mounted, and, for most of these, I cut off the truck mounts and installed couplers on the car body.
My engines were a different story. These were mostly cheap Athearns. They had all been sitting in boxes for 40 years. Most actually ran, more or less, when I cleaned them up a bit and put them on the track. I put decoders in some to test them out. Yes, decoders in old rubber-band drive Athearn GP-9s. And they didn’t run worth squat.
I’ll admit, I had some emotional ties to these engines, and I couldn’t see myself just tossing them in the trash. On the other hand, I looked around and found some brand new GP-9s in my road name. They run great, look great and actually cost less than what I would have had to invest to get the old engines re-motored and re-wheeled. So, I took the guts out of a couple of old engines, replaced the couplers, and now I run them as dummy engines with the modern ones.
But, the oldest of the bunch, an ancient gear-drive F7, is still running with a decoder now. It can be done, but the most important thing is whether the engine is still functioning well on DC.
Kadee couplers were introduced around 1960, they were designed to fit the coupler boxes that the X2F (“NMRA”) hornhook couplers used. So cars with body mounted couplers like horn-hooks should be able to be changed very easily. If they’re talgo-trucks - couplers attached to the trucks rather than the body - you can either body-mount the Kadees or replace the trucks with Kadee’s talgo trucks. However, most likely any cars with talgo trucks are going to be “train set” quality and may not be worth upgrading (except for sentimental value?).
You can convert any engine to DCC. Older engines generally don’t have isolated motors though…the motor’s + or - was connected directly to the frame. The wheels were only insulated on one side. Depending on the engine, it might be fairly easily or annoyingly difficult to do. Of course, if you have 18 brass locomotives, then it’s definitely worth the bother!! But it still might not be easy.
As far as re-motoring something like say an Athearn F unit, it might be easier to just buy a new powered chassis. Keep in mind too that painting processes are much better in the last 15 years or so. Back in the sixties and seventies factory paint and lettering was often not so good nor accurate.
w:
For trainset-style Talgo trucks (as used by Tyco, Lifelike, and Model Power), Kadee actually makes a little plastic adapter that allows a 20-series coupler to be truck mounted. Instructions are on their site. There’s also that Lifelike Scenemaster coupler already mentioned. I ordered some but it kept getting backordered, so I just cancelled it and am body-mounting no. 5’s to my upgrades.
Although I intend to replace these cars eventually, in the meantime I’ve got imaginary freight to haul, so the cheapies get Kadees, penny weights, and better wheels, and sometimes Tichy trucks, all of which I will salvage as they are retired, so I don’t feel like I’m wasting anything.
I too had the same basic question some time back. And I was told that unless the loco has some sort of sentimental value or it is something so obscure that it can’t be replaced, there are resonably priced locos out there that could save you a lot of time, money and headaches. Thiis was good advice from these guys. Shop carefully and do some thinking before you jump in. It CAN be done, but is it worth it? You decide. The cars on the other hand are. A couple bucks per and you’re good to go.
Good luck, sometimes it is neat though to say this loco or car is 30 to 40 years old.
Todd
David is right, and if you enjoy this kind of work, you can get a lot of modelling bang for your buck. While I have some more recently manufactured rolling stock, most of what I own is updated Athearn blue box stuff:
Or re-worked Train Miniature:
Even this Varney metal car benefitted from a make-over (and she came with Kadee couplers when I got her in1957) [swg]
Wayne