Seems the original thread “Can’t Understand system short” was getting too long so I was asked to start a new one.
The last thread left off with NCE Receiveing 3 failed circuit breakers and telling me that it will be at least 6 weeks before they can look at them.
I kinda liked the old thread. [:'(]
Rich
Rich, the old thread was getting to be tooooooooooo long. I asked Gary to start a new one.
Yeah, but all the good info including the NCE call was in the old thread. This new thread is sine merito.
Rich
Rich, we can always recap if necessary. Sine what? It’s Greek to me.
I’ll meet you back here in May when there is something new we can argue about.
Henry, you are as cynical as I am. but the truth is, I really want to know what the problem was.
True, but we chewed it over 9 ways to Sunday. As Sherlock Holmes said I cannot reason without more facts.
I sent a fried decoder back to NCE and it took so long, I figured it got lost in the mail, May is probably the minimum wait.
Well, if it really is going to be May before Gary hears anything from NCE, that is a long time to wait to get the layout up and running with those three power districts.
From all the testing and troubleshooting that has been conducted including continuity and voltage tests, along with power district testing with a known good EB1, there is little doubt that the problem is anything but three messed up EB1s.
Gary ought to consider purchasing three new circuit breakers, either EB1s or PSX units, to get that layout up and running. If it were me, I would do it now and determine later whether NCE can offer any help in the way of new or repaired EB1s.
Rich
Too long? It had just passed that screwy point where you get pages like -1 and -2.
–Randy
My thoughts exactly!
And I think i’m going with a PSX4 and loose the terminal block.
Gary, did you get a chance to read my post, the last one in thread #1?
Mike.
DONE $144w/shipping
You are sure the wiring is bulletproof? Mike’s last comment on the other thread referred to how you wired your layout for DC before you converted to DCC.
The series of continuity tests and voltage tests that Gary performed seem to have confirmed that the wiring is correct and that there are no cross-wired feeders to other power district buses.
But, even if there are one or more cross-wired feeders, that should not damage the new PSX circuit breakers. The new PSX units should be wired and tested one at a time, leaving each PSX connected as the next PSX is wired and tested.
In this way, if there is any faulty wiring, it can be detected in a logical manner.
Rich
Rich, I will defer to your opinion on the wiring. But, and I suspect we will never know the answer, why did the EB1’s get fried in the first place? Only that they were fried.
The EB1s were likely fried, but not necessarily. I am still willing to entertain an NCE contention that the EB1s are not damaged. Just gotta wait and see.
That said, I have a hard time imagining a way in which improperly wired feeders can damage a circuit breaker. Maybe Randy can offer possible scenarios.
If, indeed, one or more of the EB1s are fried, I think that the most likely explanations are either a power surge caused by lightning or else an improperly wired EB1.
Lighting doesn’t seem entirely plausible since the route of the power surge would be through the command station where the booster is housed. So, if a power surge caused by lightning fried the EB1s, you would think that it also would adversely affect the booster.
So, unfortunately, I think that something Gary did probably caused the failures. He could have wired the EB1s backward, that would surely damage the circuit breaker(s).
Another thing I wonder about is the use of a washer to do the quarter test. That large washer can tempt the user to take advantage of the larger surface to press down hard on the washer to generate the short.
Is it possible to press down too hard and too long to cause excessive and prolonged current to blow the circuit breaker? Randy?
Rich
Then, the only thing to do is sit and wait for the PSX4 to be wired up, and on the report from NCE. Washer, quarter, screwdriver, they should short out and the CB should trip and shut down the power. I mean, how long is long?
Hi Mike, Must have missed it.
Assume you mean this?
Gary, I have a question that I have been pondering over when this thread was starting getting hot and heavy into the “what happened?” phase.
I read, a few pages back, that you originally wired this layout for DC. If that’s true, would you mind explaining how you did it? Did you devide it into “blocks”?, and if you did, did you only gap one rail to seperate the blocks? By the way, if you did it this way, the rail without the gaps is the “common rail” you asked about.
And if you did all of this, what did you do to the wiring when you switched over to DCC?
I’m just really curious about all of this. I’ll be waiting along with the rest of you for the info from NCE.
Mike.
Yes it was a DC Layout. No both rails were gapped. All the wiring was ripped out for the tracks. Wiring for lighting was left. That caused a problem with one old feeder (telephone wire same as lighting) that was under ballast and connected to one rail near a tunnel portal. After several posts i found it and removed it.
DCC is 12ga busses (3) and 18ga feeders with each bus feeding from a circuit breaker.
How long is long? Can it be too long? Dunno.
That is a question for Randy or one of the other electrical gurus. Can a constant dead short eventually damage a DCC circuit breaker?
Rich