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Canadian government mulls privatization of VIA Canadian service
Better ride it soon!
Armstrong enjoys the advantage of being the only rail operator to service Banff. It would be better if VIA we’re allowed to operate through cars from Toronto through Winnipeg to Calgary, Banff, Lake Louise to Vancouver. The current schedule of the Canadian would allow the changes to take Place at Winnipeg.
At least Canada is looking at an alternative to simply throwing money down a proverbial rabbit hole. But, their problem is a warning to us. We cannot support luxury spending and a nanny state, too. We have to avoid this trap, but Obama has demonized legitimate opposition to his regime and so we will fall into this tiger trap. Amtrak will be in this mess in 2013, when the health care “reforms” eat up the rest of our tax dollars, after we pay intrest on our debt, pay for medicaid, pay for medicare, and bad investments in Obama’s friend’s “green” businesses.
Mr Denham use of the “nanny state” epithet is not surprising, given his and his fellow travelers’ continuing confusion of equating public mobility with profit and loss when it comes to passenger rail - but implying the nanny’s involvement with highways and air travel produce “market driven” transportation. VIA has acted as best it could with the paltry hand its been dealt by creating a premium priced product on the Canadian that is priced out of the range of most North American citizens. But even at 3 days per week, there is still a public mobility component, as Ira Silverman points out. Maanagement at the Rocky Mountaineer couldn’t care less about public mobility. I’m sitting at a Mexican restaurant in Garden City Kansas waiting for the EB SW Chief right now. The city also has 2 Essential Air Service-subsidized (along with the necessary TSA personnel) round-trips to Dallas and 1 bus a day to Wichita and 1 to Pueblo. That’s it for intercity public transportation. I rode coach out here with a doctor going to Newton, a production supervisor going to Hutchinson, and a young woman traveling overnight from KC to Dodge City, and 8 people getting off in Garden City. Not enough to support a profit-making enterprise. Fortunately, there WAS a train.
Please leave the Canadian alone. While the train is first rate and deluxe, it serves many average Canadians going places. I fear that if it is privatized, many average Canadians and this rather regular rider will not be able to afford the Canadian. Should VIA be penalized by privatization because they know how to run a top notch service and do it right? My view is that every time VIA wants to do something with trans Canada service, Rocky Montaineer blocks it–such as VIA service over CP which was a possibility a few years back. By the way, my view is that Rocky Mountaineer “stole” VIA’s Daynighter coaches for --how much per car?–in a bad political deal. Don’t think Rocky Mountaineer has anything to complain about. Probably enough business for both companies. As for the 12 deluxe upscale cars, charge the same as Rocky Mountaineer but please leave the rest alone. Nothing wrong with two levels of service.
You can’t deny that the Rocky Mountaineer is a superb product. Besides the quality of the service it has two principal advantages, as a daytime only operation it has a much higher density per car and it is not saddled with traditional railroad labor agreements in the on board area. Mr. Armstrong’s ambition even extends to the point of locking out his excellent employees to avoid paying fairer compensation. Since the service was VIA’s product to begin with, it is ironic that Mr. Armstrong can’t stop his litany of complaining about VIA. You don’t hear him being upset about government support of the Vancouver Airport. Your price comparison is a little off since in July 2012 RM will be charging $2050 a person for Gold Leaf making VIA almost 65% of Rocky Mountaineer. RM’s ace in the hole is that upscale riders can go for $1100 per person in red leaf. There is no competitive equivalent on the Canadian since only the hardy will ride overnight in coach.
It’s impossible to compare the two services. RM is not running from mid October to mid April. What would VIA’s loss be if they only ran during the same time period? I have seen performance numbers for 2006 which indicate the Canadian basically broke even on a fully allocated basis from May to September in a year when the loss for the year was $21 million. The total loss has gone up but I’m sure the summer/winter relationship is similar. And what is the impact on the Canadian of serving the Prairies and the Canadian Shield (missing the few population centers on the CP). After all it was politics, not economics which made it abandon the traditional route.
I’m surprised that no one has none a study of the effect of the Canadian on tourism. Popular wisdom is that 80% of the passengers are from outside Canada. For how many was the train ride a deciding factor (not to take away from the fact that RM brings in a huge amount of tourist dollars)?
So let’s get an apple and apples compariso
Oh Canada. Please look to your neighbors to the south of you. Please look to England across the big pond and see what happened with privatization. The USA had privately owned and operated when they left the passenger rail business because they couldn’t make a profit. Thats how Amtrak came about. England regrets privatizing their. railroads. And lets not forget why VIA was created. Please reconsider this.
Take the most profitable part of the run, give it to your friends for pennies on the dollar, and let taxpayers foot the bill for the rest. That’s not how to run a railroad.
VIA Rail created Rocky Mountaineer and made a profit, but making a profit is a bad thing, so you must get rid of it as government agencies aren’t allowed to make a profit. It should have stayed part of VIA and the profits used to improve service in Western Canada.
This is actually an old issue. While these privatization options were presented not that long ago, they were largely the result of the opinions of the former federal transport minister, who is no longer in politics. The current transport minister has said they there are no plans whatsoever to privatize any part of VIA.
If Harper had his way all the trains would be mothballed.
Re-route the ‘Canadian’ on the original line through Calgary, lower the fares (exorbitant, now), run it daily, get rid of the “Yuppie” cars, and it might work. Bureaucrats/politicians in Edmonton would object, but they don’t ride the train…
If a private operator can run a luxury service with fares only the 1% can afford with no government assistance, more power to them. But they should not be allowed to veto a useful service that provides transportation at a reasonable cost, a function the government should be expected to provide - Amtrak and Via, Interstate highway system, basic air service.
While this is a bit off-topic, the continued popularity of the Rocky Mountaineer mystifies me. You see little of the spectacular scenery of the Rockies from that train, and plenty of the Fraser River gorge which is nothing all that scenic, just long. The stretch east of Kamloops is very lengthy, and it involves a short overnight stay there, and a long day on the train. To me, the Kamloops to Vancouver segment is just a connector. When we rode it from Calgary we were onboard in the early morning, and then had crossed Kicking Horse Pass and were on the Pacific side by lunchtime. The train kept up its CP-mandated 40 mph or so pace the whole time, unable to slow down for a few really scenic stretches. What is it that the public finds so fascinating that they can charge the fares they do? I’d be interested to know how much repeat business RM gets.
Harper, before you proceed with privatising the Canadian on Via, Call up Fred Green at CP and ask him what kind of profit CP is making on their Royal Canadian Pacific. This is a luxury train for the Rich and Famous , that runs between Calgary and Vancouver, and competes with the RM.Please,Please do not drop the Via Canadian Its a national institution for All Canadians and our Visitors.
Ira and the rest of you say it all:
As a Canadian I want a National Transportation Policy not this one off all the time. We all keep hearing how wonderful the Conservatives are in business. Well where is the business plan? So I don’t want anything more done until a plan is in place.
Now some history.
VIA Rail developed the product and was forced to maintain the equipment for the first five years for a private company. (I would really like to have a complete reveiw of the bid process and see what the total bill to the taxpayer was)
In 1997 VIA was to go to 6 times per week in the summer to Jasper from Vancouver. All approved and then taken away. The reputation of the Canadian tourism market particularly in the European countries… not so good when all the plans for the summer where in place.
Expansion, you bet RM wants to expand. Even tried to go to Seattle. That did not go far as why would you allow this type of service to even start and take away some revenue for a required service? See above re transportation policy.
Now did someone say inhospitality group. Right now there is a retired travel writer from England that has had his money refunded except from Rocky. They will give only a credit. Why does he not want to go on the train now. Becuase of the year long lock out of the companies most valuable asset and the credit expires before the lock out will probably end. $4,000 of a retired persons money gone!
Unfortunatly all over the world various forms of transporation are subsidised. There is no level playing field. The country that really uses their resources most efficiently will succeed. They rest will continue in decline. Don’t let friends of the government skim off the cream and then let the taxpayer suffer higher taxes or no service.
Ira and the rest of you say it all:
As a Canadian I want a National Transportation Policy not this one off all the time. We all keep hearing how wonderful the Conservatives are in business. Well where is the business plan? So I don’t want anything more done until a plan is in place.
Now some history.
VIA Rail developed the product and was forced to maintain the equipment for the first five years for a private company. (I would really like to have a complete reveiw of the bid process and see what the total bill to the taxpayer was)
In 1997 VIA was to go to 6 times per week in the summer to Jasper from Vancouver. All approved and then taken away. The reputation of the Canadian tourism market particularly in the European countries… not so good when all the plans for the summer where in place.
Expansion, you bet RM wants to expand. Even tried to go to Seattle. That did not go far as why would you allow this type of service to even start and take away some revenue for a required service? See above re transportation policy.
Now did someone say inhospitality group. Right now there is a retired travel writer from England that has had his money refunded except from Rocky. They will give only a credit. Why does he not want to go on the train now. Becuase of the year long lock out of the companies most valuable asset and the credit expires before the lock out will probably end. $4,000 of a retired persons money gone!
Unfortunatly all over the world various forms of transporation are subsidised. There is no level playing field. The country that really uses their resources most efficiently will succeed. They rest will continue in decline. Don’t let friends of the government skim off the cream and then let the taxpayer suffer higher taxes or no service.
All very interesting comments. My perspective is from one who has ridden, and thoroughly enjoyed, a Gold Leaf journey on Rocky Mountaineer from Calgary to Vancouver and at least 10 journeys on the Canadian. Both are excellent services. Both serve separate demographics or at least one with a relatively small cross-over. Both cater to a fairly affluent market. Now, for the shocker, and I’m prepared for feedback. Do not, for one second, believe that the Canadian actually serves a transportation need for Canada. It has been quite some time since that could be said with a straight face. A 20 plus car Canadian will run with two coaches. In fact, I have never seen the Canadian with more than two coaches. Are there passengers who travel from, let’s say, Toronto to Winnipeg in sleeper plus or whatever the current marketing term is? Of course. Are they in sufficient numbers to actually claim that the train provides a transportation service? Not a chance! Let’s face it. The Canadian has become, over time, a semi-luxury land cruise for those with time and money. In fact, as a Canadian taxpayer, I have to ask myself if the money spent on the Canadian provides real value for the taxpayer. I’ll let you decide that for yourself.