I’ve got a P2 0-6-0 engine running on a 2.5 - 3% grade. (3 inches high over a 100 inch run - at most). If I run the engine alone, it will make the grade. When I add more than one car, it has trouble. Three or more cars - no go. I do not have another loco to try. Any suggestions for the engine or the track.
Thanks,
bbarroo
REAL railroad’d used helper’s on 2% grades, and typically 3 - 6 car’s per engine on flat.
0-6-0’s were ‘switch’ engine’s and for yard work. 2-10-2’s and 4-8-8-2’s worked Tehachapi’s 2.2 grade,
I agree with Don^^
It may also help if your cars have metal wheels. these are more freerolling than the plastic wheels.
John
Yes. I understand 0-6-0’s were/are switchers on a REAL railroad. I would assume an HO scale 0-6-0 could pull a few extra cars on a household layout. But from what you are telling me, I need to go to go with a larger HO engine since it will have a larger motor and more weight. Is that the general “rule of thumb?”
Thanks again,
bbaroo
Unfortunately the PK2 0-6-0’s while great looking and smooth running are not great pulling locos. There have been several threads here about them. The only suggestion I have for you is to try to add some weight to the loco. You might get it up to 5 or 6 cars on that grade. As has been said, they are primarily a yard engine and did not pull mainline trains to begin with. That said, the prototype was made to be able to pull large trains at slow speeds and was used to break up and make up consists. The pulling power of these engines is a great disapointment.
this is a partial quote from towerhobbies.com’s info on the p2k 0-6-0
NOTES FROM OUR TECH DEPARTMENT
This USRA 0-6-0 Steam Locomotive & Tender (Maine Central #175) is a
PROTO 2000 HO Scale Model Ready to Run from Life-Like’s Heritage Collection.
FEATURES: Astoundingly true to the original in both detail and performance.
Physically reflects the actual construction appropriate to the road number.
Carefully hand assembled and tested.
State-of-the-art drive system.
All drivers powered.
All locomotive and tender wheels pick-up electricity.
5 pole skew-wound balanced armature with machined brass flywheel.
Machined brass worm gear with precisely-meshed spur gear.
Weighted for maximum tractive effort–pulls 40 or more cars.
Will operate on code 100 through code 70 track on 18" radius curves and #4 turnouts. Slow speed less than 3 scale mph; fast speed less than 70 scale mph.
bold emphasis added by me .
hardly sounds like the same model at all does it ?
is the pulling ability really affected to that high a degree when going up hill ? i know 3% is a bit extreme but 40 on level ground vs 2 on a grade seems like a problem
Maybe they tested it on a -2% grade. That would certainly do it.
Does the tender roll freely on it’s own? If not, than you could try oiling the axles or replacing the trucks and wheels with ones that roll more freely.
[quote]
QUOTE: Originally posted by Darth Santa Fe
Oh, c’mon–the P2K 2-8-8-2 won’t even pull 40+ cars–they’re really saying this about an 0-6-0? My P2K 0-8-0 can just about handle 6-8 cars on level yard track. Seriously, I don’t know what to tell you about your 0-6-0 and a 3% grade. I’ve got a 2.4% on my layout, and my little heavy brass 4-6-0 starts spinning out with anything more than four passenger cars (metal wheels). If there is room for additional weight in the boiler, I’d place it over the front driver set to give it some ‘dig.’ Other than that, I’m afraid you might have to keep it in the yard or on the level part of the main. It’s a sad fact that some model locomotives and scale model gradients are not the happiest of campers together.
Tom [:(]
I suspect this might have to do with the quality of the rolling stock. The 0-6-0 can switch a cut of cars in a level yard. But maybe pull several up a grade. But keep in mind 3% is steep.
My BLI Heavy Mike leans into it’s train of 15 cars on that grade and it is working hard. So does the other mainline engines.
My QSI 2-8-8-2 will manage 24 walthers ore cars up that 3% only because of the metal wheels I equippted them with. If it stalls on that grade, I send out a helper to assist usually either a M1a or Mike from BLI.
I recall on a LHS layout a Bachmann 2-8-0 Spectrum engine working a train of about 5 cars up and down grades approaching 4% on a 4x8 layout. Shades of the Wild Mary’s 2-8-0 in real life fighting uphill to Frostburg.
Many smaller steamers have tough times on hills. It’s a combination weight & smooth wheels issue. I’d leave the wheels alone, but I WOULD work on the weight. You can definately get it to pull more by adding as much lead as possible. Stuff it into every nook and cranny you can find in it. Don’t worry about the electric motor. As long as you can spin the wheels under full load you should be O.K., just watch for heating if you go for long runs up and down the hills.
Some people raise a red flag when adding lead, worried that the extra weight will damage the motor somehow. The thing to remember is that any additional weight, whether it’s ON the locomotive or being pulled by the locomotive (cars) creates the same load on the motor. I’ve added as much as 12 ounces to an HO diesel with no ill effects, other than pulling couplers apart.
If your looking for maximum tractive effort you need to go to either steamers with cast boilers, or to cheesy traction tires.
Mark in Utah
Hi, bbarroo. My experience with the 0-6-0 Heritage is the same as everyone else’s here. It is a superbly detailed and smooth running loco, but they just can’ t get any more weight into it. Maybe if the used depleted uranium weights, it would do better.
Several things come to mind: is it possible that you have discounted a factor in the building and description of your grade? Making a smooth grade, and keeping it ‘down’, if you know what I mean, seems to be a recurring problem for modelers. They mismeasure, or are in a ru***o get to running trains, and produce iffy grades that the short driver base of the 0-6-0 can’t handle. By down I mean too steep. Mine averages 3.4%, and I can now see that it looks too steep.
Also, the rolling stock is a problem. Plastic wheel sets should be banished from catalogues, warehouses, and your layout. I have converted all of mine. Also, my grade is a carefully remeasured one that varies between 2.75% and 3.6%. I can pu***wo of the small red ore cars, each with about three ounces of WS ‘coal’ glued to the top of a foam insert that rests in the bay. That is all I can get the 0-6-0 to do. Them’s the breaks.
Is your loco well broken-in? Is your track scrupulously clean on that grade?
Otherwise, all I can say is that we all seem to agree that these are super light-weights that often disappoint in their working ability. So, I treat mine as a tiny switcher, and it likes that.
All:
Thanks for the advice. Here is what I have done to make improvements:
Again, I appreciate all of the replies and suggestions. Until I bought a new engine I was stiffled.
Regards,
bbaroo
Get a Shay and build a 10% grade.
One more thought: measure the MIDDLE of the grade, not from flat bit to flat bit. Overall it may be 3%, but once you remove the transition areas from the measurement, the central part of the grade can be much more. That one has bit me in the past.
[#ditto]
Yup, I’ve got that problem as well but as long as I’m on the throttle before the locomotive hits the grade, any mainline locomotive I have will make it by itself.
Gordon
On the Murphy Branch, the Southern used one GP38 per five or six cars. A GP38 has twice the tractive effort of a USRA 0-6-0. The 0-8-0 had a higher axle loading than the 0-6-0, thus proportionally more tractive effort.
I’d be wary of that… I’ve tested mine on a 5.5% 18"R helix that will lead to the upper level of my layout. My 3-truck Shay only pulls a few 40’ cars up that hill, even after I placed some loose weights on the loco as a test. It works for me because I’ll be runnin’ fairly short trains (empty coal hoppers and logging flats, mostly) up that steep hill. And it should look pretty cool once it’s built. But a 10% grade could be really tough even for the Shay, unless Bachman makes a wheel set with traction tires on it (I know Rivarossi did this on their last release of the Heisler).
Well, A 5.5% grade on a 18 in rad helix is very shard and the drag could cause the grade to seem more like an 8 to 9% grade to the engine. Hope you enjoy the logging train!
Okay, now you guys have me worried. My California Western logging operation, with the exception of 1 3-truck Shay, used 2-6-2 saddle tankers. I had planeed to get these saddletankers by kit-bashing 0-6-0s, two from MDC kits and one from a Bachman Spectrum RTR. I have limited the logging runs to a 4% grade, but to reach the logging camps, at least one of these 2-6-2’s has to climb 4-5 feet of 4% with six empty skeleton cars.
Traction tires.