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Can’t lead you to see the water, let alone drink. Ah, well.
Sure is nice that you have no concerns with Amtrak making hot food in its lounge cars. Sorry you have no interest in variety. Be interesting to see, though, how you propose they actually do what you think is so easy.
That is a valid point about ‘remaking’ orders, of course, and it is a concern that’s addressed only by ‘price adjustment’ of some kind, as I also doubt there would be time for any kind of do-over, or even supplying many kinds of additional condiment or amenity to an order ‘in the field’ unless the driver were provided with a portable pantry of sorts. The basic plan follows existing restaurant policy for take-out orders that can’t be brought back to the restaurant in time … whatever that policy is. Every restaurant that does take-out has one … or is incompetently run.
It’s a hysterical story. Waffle House, of all outfits, wanted to expand into the New York area … following the golden example of Krispy Kreme … with their, shall we say, amusing operating model and menu concepts as practiced in the South. I liked the way they handled their people before 9/11 came along, and went through the training in order to get into ‘upper management’ for the great raid on the North … ah, well, we live and learn, and I got a lot of valuable experience, good and bad, out of it.
The tasty dishes in fast convection oven was the prospective operating model when the Viewliner-diner oven spec was written, and it works nicely. Some perfectly adequate ‘browning’ can be done using directed microwave waveguides and ‘heating surfaces’ of correctly formed metal (if you have seen the ‘crisping sleeve’ for something like Hot Pockets you have one of the technical approaches that doesn’t reflect back into the waveguide or magnetron or ignite grapes with plasma).
Meanwhile, the idea of multi-cell sous-vide heating works just as well, in a limited space, and at least theoretically represents something a customer could be turned loose on to heat up items bought from an automat machine or brought aboard in a cooler. These circulate hot water (most commonly at around 155 degrees F) and can be thought of as ‘liquid convection ovens’ for rapid heat transfer. (Many forms of ‘gourmet’ supermarket meat-in-sauce products now come in plastic sacks that are supposed to be ‘heated in simmering water for 20 minutes’ for best texture and flavor; the sous vide machines can accomplish the same effective heating-through in less time, even with multiple packets staged in the flow.)
Three points I evidently haven’t emphasized enough for this audienc
True, many of us provincials are not as sophisticated as some of you Athenians; in fact, some of us are little more than helots in our own country, but we know the gods laugh at men who would buy new dining cars and then expect customers to order fast food from restaurants along the line to eat in them.
After the Romans conquered Greece it mattered little who was a Boeotian and who was not.
You evidently mistake my meaning, or have forgotten why Boeotians acquired fame in Attic literature.
We’re talking about chronic, well-established stubbornness, not lack of some other characteristic … certainly not intelligence per se. Think “being from Missouri but NOT being convinced by all the facts that could be provided”.
True, some Athenians might read ‘bull-headed’ into this, but that wasn’t a sense I meant.
The gods laugh far harder at men who would buy new dining cars and then cancel all food service in them, making ‘outsourced’ food something to be considered in the first place.
Food for thought there Vince, and no pun intended!
If I remember reading correctly, all those “Genuine Fred Harvey Meals” served on the Santa Fe were sold on a “break-even” basis, turning a profit wasn’t even considered. As long as they didn’t lose money Santa Fe was happy. A well-fed satisfied customer was sure to be a repeat customer. For the longest time, it worked. Maybe it worked to the end, as I understand it Santa Fe was an Amtrak holdout and was one of the last 'roads to give up passenger service.
Amtrak only needs to break even on food and beverage service on LD trains. Not even close.
In the Santa Fe days 50 years ago, labor costs were much less. If you had that level of labor cost in a good restaurant today, I’ll bet what is now a $40 meal would be double that or more.
Looking at it differently, on a 1971 UP City of Los Angeles dinner menu, a complete sirloin steak dinner was $5.50. According to an inflation calculator, that would be $34.87 now, over six times as much. For a comparable meal, Amtrak charges only $25.00.
And I am pretty sure Amtrak labor costs are far higher than the UP dining car staff’s were in 1971.
Oh well.
Mind you, I wouldn’t mind spending $35 on a meal if I got my moneys worth!
Hey, there’s a local Italian restaurant Lady Firestorm and I go to, and if we get the full-bore meal it usually costs us about $70, but let me tell you, we leave FULL!
Keep in mind the railroads, at least on their better trains used dining cars and other services as a form of marketing to a targeted segment of infuencers, at least through the early 60s. Taking a loss was a business expense. That situation has never been the case for Amtrak.
Overmod: Sir, I have been polite and civil, other than simply disagreeing with you. I see no reason to dip into snide personal remarks.
I have had better hot food in the lounge car than the hot dog and hamburger; shrimp and grits for example, I wish they still had that. As to variety, more variety is exactly what I am asking for in the cafe car. Sushi? Chili? Pea soup? Spam? Eggos? Pizza slices? Bring them on.
Connellsville is my test case. They do have Grubhub. And Grubhub says they have KFC, TacoBell, IHOP, ALso, Italian Oven, Fiesta Azteca, Smitty’s Bar, Carson’s Tavern, Wavie and Jane’s, Kickstand Kitchen. Those last six might be fine places, but they mean nothing to me. The train could easily have tacos or boneless wings on board. IHOP? OK, I could get pancakes. Don’t know what the other places have. Would Amtrak publiish a book of restaurants and their menus to have on the train for each station stop?
So do I. But that does not change the fact that they don’t, and absent some Bellamy-like overnight change in the way everybody thinks about profitability, they probably never will again.
What we’re discussing is, absent profitable operation of anything but ‘hotel car’ service quality, and perhaps not even that, how we can preserve better onboard dining. We’ve conclusively dismissed the idea of outsourcing any of the actual on-board food service; we’ve conclusively dismissed the idea of ‘expert’ crews running ‘fast casual’ food service of any meaningful type; Amtrak itself has largely conclusively decided luxury dining isn’t going to make the Congressional margins. That makes some sort of take-out delivery about the only thing that can be made to work.
All stocked via a commissary? Kept precisely where, and served precisely how?
Mind you, I completely agree, and in a more perfect world (including, imho, the more perfect world presaged by those Viewliner convection ovens) that’s exactly what could be provided. Expand the idea very quickly to special-needs meal preparation, Kosher dishes, various kinds of vegetarian/paleo … put the cook-to-order and then preserve department in the commissary or get a service like SkyChef set up to do as much of it as the unions would permit. ACY Tom could give us substantial guidance into what would, and wouldn’t, be likely with the current employees and operating model.
There’s also the range of special orders that could be made with simple materia
In 2018, according to Amtrak’s Five-Year Service Line Plans, Base (FY 2019) + Five Year Strategic Plan (FY 2020–2024), most of Amtrak’s long-distance train riders were traveling for non-business reasons. Only 8 percent were traveling for business. Approximately 85 per cent were in coach class traveling an average distance of 468 miles. Moreover, 40 percent were retired. And 45 percent reported household income of less than $45,000.
Amtrak probably cannot charge more than $25 for its signature steak, a bit of marketing hype, because there is not enough demand for it at an inflation adjusted price of $35.00. Moreover, there are not enough long-distance business passengers that can write-off the cost of meals on their expense account.
But it may not be just price. Many younger Americans are not as enthusiastic about eating meat as was the case when I was young.
Amtrak lost $38 million on food and beverage service in 2018. Approximately 90 percent of the loss was attributable to the long-distance trains. There is a good reason for the loss. Most of the long-distance passengers are not willing to pay what it would take for Amtrak to break even on its food and beverage services.
Exactly!!! BTW, I only used steak as an example because it was on both menus. I haven’t had one in years. Don’t like it.
Of course you could avoid all this confusion and hassle simply by flying from Toledo to Washington DC where you could get a hot meal then take the Metro or an Uber to Union Station where you could again get a hot meal and finish your trip to Rockville by a 30 minute commuter train ride on the Brunswick line. But then again I suppose it is more fun to figure out ways to make it more uncomfortable and much more of a hassle. Let’s face it, the unions killed the dining car and they aren’t coming back. The unions also killed the idea of out-sourcing food service when Amtrak tried that on the Empire Service between NYC and Albany. Congress also didn’t help when they mandated break-even by the end of 2020. Stop crying about it because it ain’t worth the hassle of getting Congress to change its mind or the union to back off their wage and benefit demands. So save yourself the hassle of the train and fly. You’ll get there faster, more reliably and won’t have to worry about where you’ll get your next hot meal or the lack of variety in the lounge car. You might also save yourself a bit of money in the bargain.
Yep it is too expensive to pay people a wage that will let them LIVE their lives instead of groveling. Got to keep the slaves back on the plantation and under firm control.
OK then I suppose I could save even more time by not going at all. I could do what my niece did from Oregon. She called us on the computer visual thing. Something like Skype.
I consider the train ride part of my vacation. Flying is a demeaning experience I have to endure before I get to my vacation. Try going to the cafe car on a plane. Try getting even a hot dog on a plane. I get to watch the mountain scenery close up. Ever try to use the restroom on a plane while the plane is still on the taxiway? If I want to sit with my wife, one of us will be in a aisle seat or a window seat, so extra charge for that. The train cost $260 bucks for two round trip tickets.
To fly I either go to BWI or DCA. The train dumps me out right in Rockville, five minutes from my destination. Not sure a BWI commuter train makes that simple, and surely DC National, er Reagan, all the way out there is a trek. Especially with two large heavy suitaces and our carry on grips. The extra charges for my luggage alone on the airline would probably cost more than my train ticket. On the train, my heavy bags are right next to the door of the car. And the porter will hand them down to me.
“Crying about it”? If no one speaks up, if no one expresses their desires, needs, impressions, then NOTHING will change.
It sounds like that, inspite of all the wonders of the train trip that you describe, you had a pretty bad trip. I like the Skype idea but no way am I going to sit overnight in coach for hours eating hot dogs when i can fly and be at my destination in a fraction of the time with a much better chance to be on time. Yes, you may get to see the scenery but, i have ridden the entire Amtrak system and except for a few of the western LD trains the scenery leaves much to be desired. Graffiti covered, abandoned factories and housing. As far as your luggage goes, that is your own fault. If you can’t fit everything you need in a carry-on suitcase and a backpack you are taking too much. I used to take the train alot but as I get older I find them to be very uncomfortable and inconvenient. Now, except for the NEC, I fly or drive to wherever I need to go and enjoy it much more. And, I have never felt demeaned.
Yep you can have overpaid servers and kitchen staff or you can have full service dining cars.