At the annual meeting of the NC Train Host Association last Saturday an interesting tidbit was brought up by the NC Rail Division staff. Apparently NCDOT is in discussions with ConnDoT to extend the Carolinian (#79/80) to New Haven. Recall that Charlotte is 704 miles from NYP and at this time NC pays the total cost of the train south of Washington, (less fares collected) despite the fact that the majority of the passenger loads are in the Richmond to DC segment. Virginia has been getting a free ride at NC expense for all of these years. Extending to New Haven adds 75 miles pushing us over the 750 mile mark making it eligible as a national system LD train.
Establishing the legal and operating proceedure for Amtrak to take on this train expense is in discussion at the current point by all three parties, since apparently its not actually been done since the 750 limit was imposed by Congress. Setting up who would turn and service the equipment in New Haven is another point of discussion, but both parties seemed pretty positive that this can happen and happen soon. Of course in the end, one never knows.
From ConnDoT’s viewpoint it adds a pre-6 AM departure from New Haven to NYP and south, since currently their earliest daytime departure is the Acela that leaves Boston at 5:05AM and leaves New Haven at 7:06. Currently, the first Regional is not until 7:37.
Speaking for the 100+ NC Train Hosts at the meeting, this announcement was certainly a surprise, though a pleasant one. I think it points to NC’s efforts to provide a 1st class service at the lowest possible cost and like our own Piedmont’s, a willingness to try someting new.
New Haven: Amtrak does turn Springfield shuttles there, has some car/engine shop space, but not much Amtrak car storage space. Balloon loop for turning, if a bit awkwardly placed for Amtrak use. No commissary, but a contractor could relieve that.
Springfield: No real service facilities, but some NE regionals do turn there. Shore power for overnight storage. Wye for turning equipment. Might be limited by platform length. Shuttles are serviced at New Haven.
Montreal: Probably too far to make Charlotte, even in a very long day. No service limitations. What Amtrak doesn’t have, VIA does.
Albany: Engine and direction change required in New York (Penn), Albany turns shuttles all day, has engine and car shop.
NC’s custom fleet might be problematic. Amtrak’s Heritage Fleet used most of the same components as Amfleet for electrical/HVAC, NC’s is a little more custom.
Look at LD routes vs the shorter routes. If you extend the Carolinian’s route, you increase the likelihood of it not running on time. Reliability is important for actual passenger service.
Ideally, probably Boston. If there is a problem covering that distance in a given time frame, resulting in problems in turning back the equipment in a timely fashion, then New Haven might be an alternative.
A critical point to the NCDOT is maintaining the current 7:25 AM slot out of NYP to the south. We’re not going to Boston or anywhere else.
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Far less chance of interference between Boston and New Haven than between New Haven and NY. Just have some padding in the westbound-southbound schedule
It wouldn’t be a “3am train” necessarily; for example, it could replace the consist of the old Owl overnight from Boston to NYP, or even lay over at some expedient point to facilitate a transit of NYP in “minimum time” around the scheduled best departure time from New York (I am presuming very short ‘dwell’ would be desirable on any Penn Station track during that timeframe).
Remember that the only object of the expansion is to achieve a route length in excess of 750 miles, and we are now discussing whether economic or social justification for extending the train ‘further’ than that magic number can be made. I would be tempted to observe that turning the train at someplace like Rt. 128 (a logical destination for some of the riders from the Research Triangle area, no?) might achieve most of the goals of going to “Boston”, with any passengers actually wanting to go all the way in being accommodated either with a transfer at Penn or to a commuter train or mass transit a la NYW&B to IRT. (BTW, I don’t see going to Springfield or any other point requiring a power change or other added cost or uncertainty, unless CDOT is willing to pay the pro-rata cost involved)
I think we’ve already addressed something about Carolina paying for most of the train cost while Virginia gets a free ride for much of the actual passenger-mileage. A hidden issue here is whether it’s in taxpayer interest to take over this run as an “LD” expansion if so much of the train’s ridership is only in the South, or whether ridership from Southern points to the Northeast (or within the Northeast if the train’s amenities or service are superior to current alternatives) would materially increase as the result of a one-seat ride or perhaps better ame
Rode the New Haven’s Owl from Boston to New Yprk an average of once-a-week from 1958 to 1966. Left Boston at 2AM. The sleepers were open at 10:30 pm. Arrival in NY at 7:15AM, ococupancy until 8AM.
EVen coacn passengers can use a night of undisturbed sleep. There is no Amtrak train that provides that service from Boston to New York at the present time. A 2AM departure would have the train lay-over in New HAven 5-6AM and pick up some apssengers that would like an overnighter from Boston to New York and still guarantee its slot in leaving New Haven.
My very first trip to Israel in March 1960 actually started on the New Haven’s Owl. In a lower berth in a heavy-weight “Dollar-Saver-Sleeper.”
Should be no problem in having the coaches open for occupancy at11:30PM.
The question this raises – and there are people following this thread who can run the numbers – is whether more trains become needed to cover the expanded service. Here, we’re taking the train northeast to Boston, turning it, opening the cars for a minimum of 3.5 hours using Dave’s optimistic departure, then taking until, say, 7:15 to get back to Penn to commence boarding. That’s about half a day. Are there enough consists and power available to Amtrak to allow this for the existing Carolina service?
An extension New Haven <> BOS would exceed the present 39 train limit over the drawbridges.
Carolinians present inability to not quite make operating costs is because of its length limit.
More cars are not allowed at present due to the storage siding limit at CLT station…
CLT is having a new layover facillity being built some 2 (?) miles west that will allow more cars to be assigned to Carolinian which may allow it to be positive revenue to expenses,
Additional cars > Now that is a real problem as the planned displaced single level cars seem to be far off in the future due to Nippon’s ((NS) inability to deliver the midwest bi-level cars that would have displaced single level cars to the east.