I would like your thoughts on how to proceed with carving my foam ‘mountain’…
I think the way to go would be for me to glue all the layers to one another but not glue the entire thing to the foam base, not yet anyway. It would be much easier to work on it with it sitting on a work table than up on the layout. I know I need to keep as much of the top layer as possible for the logging camp and other structures. I have two tracks there, one for loads and one for empties. Any advice or suggestions greatly appreciated.
Jarrell
It would be much easier to work on somewhere off the layout. It would make cleanup much easier too. Just make sure to test your progress regularly so you don’t go to far.
Keep sending those posts and pics. We’re all watching!
What is going into the space just past the closest portal? The open space below where your logging camp will sit. Bear with me, because I am going to suggest how to carve and glue depending on your response.
So far, so good, by the way.
Have you elected to keep your top layer or two liftable to retrieve stuff that derails in that tunnel?
“Keep sending those posts and pics. We’re all watching!”
I know! If this fails it’ll be in front of God and everybody. But, I’m not sure how you fail at this. Just quit maybe or get mad and bash it to pieces? Naaaay… to expensive.
I’m going to glue and move it, thats gotta be easier.
Thanks,
Jarrell
That’s a darned good question Crandell, seeing as how I’ve changed my mind about what going there about 4 times already.
The original plan was for the sawmill operation to be on the upper level, then finished lumber brought down to a small yard by the mainline. It was to be picked up there and delivered to a retail lumber yard and one other business. Then the more research I did the more I realized I wanted to model the area the logs were cut and put on the cars, so now that will be on the upper level, the logs brought down to a sawmill and my latest plan was for that sawmill to be located down in the area you mentioned. BUT… this is taking up so much of my layout space, I really want more businesses to deliver other types of goods to. I do have the entire other end of the dogbone still open so as for now the sawmill will go in that area.
NOW, whats your suggestion…[:p]
Jarrell
Well, you may be dismayed when I suggest that you model the mountain side, or slope, down into that area. That means you will have to form and add some layers on the other side of the close portal, but carve them so that the mountain slopes toward the closer lower track and along towards the approach to the far portal.
That means eating up that chunk of space, but not necessarily all of it. Or, you could make it a steep rocky bluff, or cliff, pretty much as it is. However, I think, based only on the foreshortening of the view, that you may have too little room on that upper deck for much of an operation. Maybe a different, higher, angle shot will convince me otherwise. If you slope that space, you could model a dirt road with switchbacks up to the logging operation. A small log cabin, maybe a horse shed and paddock somewhere up the slope? Don’t forget a single power line and some poles? Or was is a steam operation at that time? If steam, how did they get the water to the mill? A pipe line is needed, or a stream nearby? Was it wood fired steam, or coal? See how the thinking goes?
I feel strongly that the area right next to your bench end & backdrop, on the extreme upper left, will look unnatural, or odd, unless you find a way to model the continuation of the mountain slope up that way, with trees, of course. This may be difficult to accomplish with the track configuration as you show it. If you see what I mean, and concede the point, can you make a sharper first turn at the top and bring that line closer to the first ‘bluff’ edge corner, thus straightening it out a bit? That will free up more space in the corner. Just a thought.
Anyway, I had better shut up before you get into a frenzy and do something drastic.
By the way, I am very pleased about the way you have gone about this. You have benefitted from a lot of experience on this forum, and I feel that you will end up with an excellent layout based on the folks’ advice here. Unfortunately, alo
If you didn’t have the track on top of the mountain, I’d suggest gluing down the first two layers and leaving the upper layers free, to act as a access point to get at derailments in the tunnel. But since that’s not really practical…
I suggest NOT making the lower two levels solid, with full sheets of foam. Instead, just stack some foam “pillars” inside the tunnel area to act as supports for the upper 2-3 layers of foam, which should be solid sheets. Make sure the back side of the tunnel area is free of foam (mostly; add a couple of pillars in back) so you can access the inside of the tunnel from the usceniced area of the layout if need be. Glue everything together, and use bamboo skewers plunged deeply through all the layers of foam to act as “rebar” bracing for the foam structure. I’d also extend the lower levels of foam out more (as much as 8"-10") and wedding cake them so when you carve the foam, you get a more gentle slope upwards, instead of the sheer cliff face you’ve got now. Carve away as usual, and make sure you bite into the base level of foam to eliminate the “pimple on a pool table” effect of the mountain springing out of a completely flat surface.
I agree with selector about the hillside coming down to the main level. I also would have to agree that unless the hillside continues on up above the top tracks you run the risk of looking like you are o a plateau out west somewhere. You may be able to hide this with lots of structures at the top of the hill and then maybe behind that some trees that get progressively taller within a compressed space behind the buildings. This way you could give the impression that the ground goes up behind the buildings but you could do it starting at the rooftop level instead of ground level. You would the continue the impression on the backdrop. It would have to be done carefully to pull it off but it just might work.
As for the slope in front of the current hill. I’m not sure of your local that you are modeling but there are steep hills everywhere, so it doesn’t need to eat up a lot of real estate to blend it in. I go to the Cumberland Valley a couple of times a year and some of those “hills” are quite steep to walk up. You are tierd when you get to the top, and I’m only 40! And out west,…forget it! There are steep hills everywhere! The idea that selector had about a small camp and a road on the hillside is a good one for adding visual interest. I would keep it small and towards the top though, otherwise you would have little seperation between scenes at the top and scenes at the bottom (unless thats what you want). Just think about where you want the eye to go.
The thought about placing your sawmill on the other end of the layout is a good one. Use ALL of your real estate. By that I don’t necessarily mean cover everything with tracks and buildings, but speading things out a little will not only help with people congestion but it will also make the layout “feel” bigger. You won’t always be standing in the same place when you are running trains.
Something that might add a little interest (I don’t know how easy this would be to do, or if you’d even be intersted) might be
Jarrell
Ithink the advice here is great,selector has the right idea some what,you need to kill off that sharp cliff,it needs a gentell slope down to the lower section.I agree need to see the airea from the top.
JIM
orsonroy has a point. NO PIMPLE ON A POOL TABLE. Just be sure to add other undulations to the ground on the main level to combat this.
Jarrell I agree with Selector need to get rid of the cliff and put a gental slope in.
JIM
The part you have shown is the easy part to scenic. The hard part will be the area on the right where you have the grade with a track running parallel and right next to it. That will end up a sheer rock face all the way. That’s why you need some slopes on the other end. Have you considered why you need the logging camp so high? Could you lose one or two layers of foam? Less grade, less distance to ‘slope’ up to.
Dave H.
I may as well bite the bullet and admit that I think Dave is right. I created a monster and there isn’t much use in trying to deal with it, not at this point when it would be easiest to change. As all of you have said, the high cliff needs to be tamed down, gentled out and simple geometry tells me that with it at 8 inches high and almost half way out into my 4x4 foot space, making it more believable would take up a good bit of real estate. But, the thing that really had me preturbed was my long grade up to this area, well…not so much the grade but how the heck I was going to scenic it. Now for an experienced modeler this may not be much of a problem, but for a first time layout builder it is going to be a major headache.
You know, you can read all the books in the world but there is no teacher like experience. So, I’m going to take a few days and rethink this area, maybe try reducing the hill to half it’s height. That would reduce the length of the grade to only 8 feet (calculating with WS risers) which would free up some space on the other end of the layout that I can use for other ideas. Reducing the height would also give me the advantage, like Selector says of being able to ‘scenic’ the flat area on up (in the background part of the flat area).
I appreciate your honest opinions and suggestions.
Jarrell
it’s great to watch this process before i go through it myself … thanks for making all the mistakes for me [:D]
hahah , knowing me i’ll find some new mistakes of my own once i get started on construction
I’m going to say the same thing I said about a month ago. make your mistakes in pixels. Get a layout program, bite the bullet and learn it. Then create the layout digitally, you can even run trains across the digital to test your operations. We can still check your progress only we will be checking plans not the physical manifestations.
Better photos of the area…
the access hole
Jarrell
If I leave out a mistake it is by mistake and will try not to do it again in the future.
[;)]
Jarrell
Now Chip, where is the fun in doing it right the first time? I’d be bored in a week and would not have learned any new curse words. The building supply places and the hobby shop wouldn’t see me nearly as much because I wouldn’t have to redo things. I’m helping the economy. It is my patriotic duty. I wouldn’t have met all you nice folks because I wouldn’t have a single question to ask… well, maybe a few.
Software huh… I may look into that…[}:)]
Jarrell
Okay, I see it better now. Thx for the new view. I would agree that you give yourself a lot more leeway by eliminating the one layer of foam up top. I also stand by my suggestion earlier that you commence your first bend earlier/maybe tighter, up top, so that you run a somewhat straighter course to whatever is going to be up there. You will then have twice as much room toward the end of the layout to do with what you wish…although continuing the slope a bit would help with the illusion and reality of the setting. Don’'t sweat the tight curves, 'cuz the l’il Beastie gets to cruise that line, not your big locos.
So, you might leave the one layer of foam over your left-most portal, and remove the second, and go on to adjust the grade (it’s okay…this won’t hurt a bit!), thereby freeing up a fair chunk of space for a yard, another spur and industry, a village, a lake, whatever, at the bottom area.
Now might be a good time (now being after you’ve undone what we suggest), to step back and ask if a rethink of the basic design is in order. I still believe that what you have up to the first level of foam, and even up to the modified grade and upper deck is still eminently usable. Some cold, hard thinking about what will be at the base of that modified grade will not be wasted time at this point. However, cold and hard does not preclude creativity and dreaming.
What is your fancy?
LOL!
Making a plan doesn’t make your work mistake free. It justs eliminates a few of the start-over ones. You’ll have plenty of mistakes left over. That’s the joy of this hobby.
Q: What’s the difference between an Mast Modeler and an amateur?
A: The Master Modeler makes his screw-ups look like they were supposed to be that way.