I’ve been an Oregonian for the last six years and I hope for many years more. While I think the Talgos used on the Amtrak Cascades are charming, they show such a disappointing inability to deal with service popularity and immediate need. Too, without dedicated or specially tailored right of way, the Talgos can’t offer higher speeds promised by their builder - despite their tilting pendular capability - so 79mph is about it. Big deal!
Having grown up from the lowly Espee 1960s and '70s Sacramento Daylight through the miraculous Amtrak California San Joaquins and Capitols, I am amazed and somewhat appalled that the states of Washington and Oregon are so 'wowed" by the Talgos. These government transportation agencies seem to have been enthralled on a concept that lacks substance in the face of freight railroads that can’t or won’t provide the necessary signalling and infrastructure to make the Spanish-built trains really outperform a conventional US-built intercity train.
So, why can’t we all push these agencies to adopt the “California Car” as nearly perfected by Caltrans for Amtrak California service on the Surfliners, San Joaquins and Capitols corridors? At least Amtrak California can add a car on demand when sufficient idle equipment is on hand. Amtrak Cascades requires reservations at all times because they cannot expand Talgo train consists without much advance planning thanks to pendular articulation. God help a passenger if you just show up at the depot hoping to catch a ride north or south…no reservation, no ticket, no ride! Except for the San Joaquins in California, that doesn’t much happen.
I honestly belive the Talgos could provide a stellar service in the PacNW if there were 10 to 15 trainsets of ten to fifteen (short) cars each. But we must recall that each Ta
One of the discussions about bringing Talgo to the Midwest, in some alternate Universe/timeline where we get the money, centered on the fixed consists. I was told that fixed consists for Talgo are not a problem because Amtrak effectively runs fixed consists of Horizon cars on the Hiawatha and other corridor trains. The argument is that if they need extra capacity they would (semi-)permanently add a car because the incremental cost of running that car all of the time is less than the cost of switching it in an out of consists.
Does anyone know if they switch cars in and out of the Pacific Surfliner consist? I suppose lengthening a Hiawatha consist from 4 to 5 cars is doable if you have a spare Horizon car somewhere in Beech Grove that you can repair. The Pacific Surfliner is its own fleet of cars, so the question is if there are any spare Surfliner coaches. As for the Talgo, they could in theory add cars to that consist - they can uncouple cars in the shop - but again the question is where could they conjure up another Talgo car apart from ordering it from the Talgo Company as an expensive special order.
The subject of crowded trains on Hiawatha and the new Illinois trains came up, and I had suggested perhaps they could work a deal adding Metra bi-levels to the consist for busy weekends. A bi-level is couplable to a Horizon car although I don’t know the compatibility of the trainlined MU or HEP. The bi-levels are in demand for work-day rush hour and they are idle much of the other time, and using them for a weekend peak of, say, the Springfield or St Louis or even Hiawatha would be an effective use of resources. I received a rather derisive and sarastic response from someone who is prominent in Illinois passenger-rail advocacy circles in the form of “why don’t we have the passengers ride in open-top gondalas while we are at it?”
I was later told that the Hiawatha and other state-subsidized trains had started out with suburban bi
I’ve always been told that focusing on top speed when it has no significant effect on average speed is erroneous. So…per a recent anecdote on another forum, thanks to the non-tilting of conventional equipment, replacing Talgo TPUs with Superliners and/or Surfliners (the latter being your “Amtrak California bilevels”, which means you double-posted the same kind of equipment in the title, for the record) adds an additional 30 minutes to the Amtrak Cascades schedule.
Now what kind of top speed are you trying to achieve? FRA crashworthiness specifications have gone up since 1999, and the requirements insofar as track classes and signaling are just as stringent as ever. You can get 125 mph with both Talgos and Surfliners if you upgrade the Cascades corridor to Class 7 track, cab signals plus automatic train stop (and of course, significantly geared and powered locomotives); but the speed difference through curves would yet be significant and give the Talgo sets the edge over the conventional rolling stock.
79 MPH, Grade Crossing Protection!!! No Grade Crossings between Boston and Washington EXCEPT in the New London, CT area. (Tourest Area)
In the Northeast Corridor, all trains are Reserved Seat Trains. The 20 Acela Train sets differ from the French TGV, on which it’s based, in that each car has its own pair of 4 wheel trucks which does allow a car to be removed or added if needed. Remember, only 15 of the 20 are in service on a normal day.
The Regionals use Amfleet Cars excect on Holiday weekends. They then “borrow” Commuter Coaches from Boston and other east coast cities to add cars.
I’m well aware of the differences between average speed/sustained speed and top speeds. However, my basic point against the cascades talgos was not so much speed related as their service flexibility. Right now the Cascades Corridor needs to grow its market. I do not believe the Talgos manage to capture growth. Their fixed consists - which top out at about 10 cars, the equivalent of about 5 conventional standard (lile Horizon) coaches and 4 bi-levels - limits Amtrak (WADOT+ODOT) from quickly adjusting to demand or to actually build demand at smaller cost.
At some point, say once frequent service (more than three daily trains in each direction) between Portland and Seattle is established…more like 6 to 7 minimum each way departures…Talgos might work epecially well, particularly in express service. At the present time, however, the BNSF has largely provided a well-engineered double track line with bi-directional signals and higher speed crossovers. The Tacoma area still means slowing for curves and congestion, but the area where speed is more important is south of Tacoma where sustained running with few stops is crucial.
WADOT’s I-5 is a marvelous freeway, but is quickly approaching saturation and is seeing a lot of commercial tractor trailers. For me, this means a semi-pleasant drive, but not a fun one thanks to having to be sharply attentive in making the 200-odd mile drive between Portland and Seattle. WA Highway Patrol can be aggressive and Washington freeway drivers tend to me even more so…drivers speeding 15 to 20mph over the posted speed limit (65 in most areas) is typical. So I prefer the train. I just don’t enjoy having to compete for a highly limited number of Talgo seats, and hate the fact that I can’t just go down to Union Station and climb aboard for a pleasure trip that may be spur of the moment, or a business trip that is brought on by a meeting venue change, etc.
To build a strong and steady Cascades Corridor fast and frequent service needs to
I’d live to see Amtrak place an order for a lot of California Surfliner types of cars. I’m sure a set would add capacity to the Hiawatha service. Another set could be used for weekend student service. Try finding a seat for thanksgiving on any of the Illinois trains.
There may be other short corridors in Michigan or other states that need to quickly add seats & capacity to existing trains. An efficient schedule could mean that a set runs from St Louis thru Chicago to Milwaukee.
I think you’ll find a lot of answers to your questions here http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/rail Download the Long Term Plan at the link on the right of that page. The Train Equipment link is also relevant to this discussion.
Long term - 20 years out, Washington DOT is looking to own a total of 15 Talgo trainsets operating at 110 MPH, once planned track upgrades are completed.