According to Sim Webb the torpidos went off and Casey started to slow but,not enough.
Again Newberry was found innocent of any negligence.
Folklore has blamed Newberry not the IC RR.
I’m finding this discussion and debate interesting. I’m glad to be learning more about things than I did.
We had drove from Graceland to the museum that day. When we arrived to the Museum it was going to be closing in another 45 minutes. Unfortunately we didn’t have the time to take the care to read everything like we wanted to.
Thanks for somewhat continuing my visit to this place[Y] TF
One account has the “late” time in the run-late order decreasing in segments over his run. In this account, his fireman said they would’ve been back on their time table schedule somewhere south of Vaughn.
Brakie, torpedoes are (or were-we don’t have them anymore) used to get the attention of the engine crew. To get them to reduce speed and look for a flagman, o
Jeff,Indeed the torpedos are or rather was a warning device…Casey could have missed Newberry’s flag for another reason that should be discussed…
Was Casey asleep and woke up after the topedo went off? After all he had doubled out with little or no rest.
On the Chessie I was called with 4 hours rest and nodded off while riding in the cupola and nothing was said by the conductor.
For the record if I was at home instad at my away terminal I would have marked off that run due to lack of rest.
Probably the best place to learn more about the true story is to pick up the April 2000 Trains magazine, whose cover story was on the 100th anniversary of the wreck that killed Jones.
There may some confusion re TV shows. There was a nationally syndicated “Casey Jones” western series in the 1950’s, starring Alan Hale Jr. In the 1960’s - early 70’s there was a local “Lunch with Casey” kid’s show here in Minneapolis-St.Paul area.
It’s interesting to me that the wreck in 1900 probably wouldn’t have happened 10 years earlier or 10 years later. Several trains were trying to clear the main for Casey’s train, but one was stuck with several cars not in the clear due to a problem with an airbrake - technology that wasn’t around a few years before. Had the incident happend 10 or so years later, there probably would have been electric light signals warning Casey to slow down and eventually to stop clear of the trouble. Of course, he had been running trains for something like 14 hours at that point, so might not have seen the signals anyway.
Interesting (to me anyway) that the two most famous U.S. Caseys - Jones and Stengel (Hall of Fame baseball manager) - weren’t really named Casey. The engineer was John Luther Jones. Since John Jones was so common a name, he was nicknamed for his hometown of Cayce, Kentucky. Similarly, Charles Dillon Stengel got his nickname for bragging to his teammates how much better things were in “K.C.” - his hometown of Kansas City.
Thanks Stix
I wish I had the April 2000 trains magazine. I have the April 2000 Model Railroader magazine but that doesn’t quite cut it, does it? Recently I have a subscription to trains magazine.
I just want to give a thank you to everyone that posted. I learned a lot from you on this thread from your posts.
I am the type of person that just wants to grab a little more knowledge every day all the way until the time I can’t grab anymore.
Thanks Track Fiddler
Some pictures on the wall that day
This is my favorite
The crew
Guys,The only known picture of Casey is in the cab of his beloved 2-8-0 #638 his assigned freight engine while he worked the freight pool.
Triggered from the Caboose thread and the Caboose up in the air in Jackson Tennessee[swg][:-^]
TF
Missed this thread first time around.
Railroad men died by the hundreds back then
I found a video that Disney made. I don’t know if this what Mike was thinking of, but I do remember this.
Angelo… I’m still not too old for a good cartoon, especially when it’s a good one.
Thanks for that… I liked it!
Track Fiddler
We are so many years later. How about this:
How many of us habitually leave a few minutes late for work or other things, and try to “make time” (that is a railroading term) on the highway?
How many of us take the posted speed limit as merely a “guideline” and add 10 mph (or more) all the time on the highway?
I see very aggressive drivers each day on the highway.
Given the circumstances Casey Jones had on that day, I can see myself doing the very same thing: running fast to make time for my employer, possibly missing the torpedos (if they were there) or missing a signal (if it had been there) due to fatigue.
The question that has always intrigued me is this: Once the brakes were applied, could not Casey have also jumped like the fireman? Was it necessary for somebody to physically be there to hold the throttle lever, or could he have saved himself with a jump, too, and still saved the passengers???
In any event, I view him as a hero for allowing, as a minimum, the fireman to live to ripe old age. Casey saved some lives that day, and that’s good enough for me.
Many of our American war heros were not actually the most perfect of characters either (I’m thinking of the real WWII fighter pilot Gregory “Pappy” Boyington) but they did an amazing job when the situation demanded it, and deserve to be remembered as heros. In Boyington’s case, besides being an amazing pilot himself, he is credited with revolutionizing American fighter tactics in the South Pacific. He said “show me a hero and I’ll show you a bum” and “I’m an expert on marriage. I’ve had several (5). I can tell you what not to do!”
As a kid I got to meet Pappy Boyington at the air show in Montoursville, PA, one time. Glad I did.
So for me, I’ll remember those guys as heros, regardless of any historical revisionism. They did enough. My hat is of
John,Ever think it was to late for him to jump? Again the torpedos was there as was the flag,his orders stated he was to meet trains at Vaughn and he disreguarded his orders and sped into those trains like a drunk driver into a line of cars. Did Casey tell Sim to jump that night? We will never know the truth.
Not a hero like folklore has made him. Casey was found fully responsible for the wreck. Had Casey obeyed his orders he would have slowed before reaching Vaughn and the wreck would have been avoided.
If what Larry says is true, the title of this topic is false and needs to be updated to reflect reality rather than some misleading romanticized fable.
I’d say the thing with what Casey Jones may or may have not done wrong is a common thing in History. Every person has faults somewhere and that is true for every historical hero and figure too. That shouldn’t change the fact that Casey did a good thing by having Sim jump and sacrificing his life to save passengers on that train. Basically he was willing to risk (and regrettably lose) his life to correct his mistake.
I would guess that Casey is probably exagerated in songs and legends to the point that telling of his story are not always completely true, but Casey is still a memorable figure. I don’t think such thinks discount the value of Casey’s story.
Just my idea and opinions…
Although still true to some extent today, at that time basically every accident ended up being determined to have been “human (i.e., employee) error” or “an act of God” so that the railroad could say it wasn’t legally / financially responsible.
The thought at the time was that Jones staying in the cab allowed the train to slow down more than if he had jumped; in fact, some folks noted that his slowing the train from about 60 MPH to 30 MPH in a short period of time was remarkable.
At the time of the crash, Jones had been running a train for around 20 hours, something that would not be legal today. Railroaders of that time noted in later years that it wasn’t that unusual to see a train roll by with the engineer asleep in the cab; it’s quite possible that is what happened to Jones and why he didn’t slow down until woken up by the torpedo.
Interesting to note that, at a time when it was normal for a couple of railroaders to die each day in the US, the only person ever killed on a train run by Casey Jones was Jones himself.
Roundhouse Rodney came out in his long underwear, if I remember correctly, and sang “Walking in my Winter Underwear,” to the tune of “Walking in a Winter Wonderland.”
EDIT: You were right–http://lunchwithcasey.com/main/merry-christmas-from-lunch-with-casey/
http://lunchwithcasey.com/main/about-casey-jones/
I remember watching it before going to afternoon kindergarten…
Another question that’s been bugging me for years was he to scared to jump or was he trying to correct his mistake? Did he tell Mr.Webb to jump or did he jump on his own? We will never know the truth.
He disobeyed his orders stating he would be meeting trains at Vaughn,He failed to slow for those trains at Vaughn sped into a wreck that was avoildable. Even today that would be the ruling.
Seeing Casey’s past rule infringements it comes as no surprise that he would be involved in a major wreck…
Jim,There is a ton of information about this wreck on line and in some books that goes deeper then the folklore surrounding this wreck.
Sadly folklore is seldom researched and is accepted as the truth.
As a example common folklore has the Chessie roads merged when in fact they was not merged under the Chessie banner but,the mergers came under the CSX banner. A quick check of the roots of the CSX on the Train Magazine web page will confirm this.