I finally was ready to start ballasting my rail yard when I read the following label from the Scenic Express container.
CAUTION! Natural Cinders Not to be used as Ballast
C
I don’t know why you couldn’t use natural cinders as ballast as long as you’re not going to be breathing a lot of dust in the process.
I can’t believe there’s no warning on the jar that it is known to the State of California to cause birth defects and cancer, because it seems that everything else in today’s world has that warning. [(-D]
Continued Post.
“It will interfere with electronics and digital signals. Please keep away from track or electronic accessories.”
Unfortunately I purchased two 32 oz containers six months ago from Scenic Express at the Amherst show.
My layout uses DCC and I don’t want to take a chance using it.
Any ideas?
Frank
Could be used for loads, piles, etc. Not just sure of the color, so you might have to paint it to represent black coal. Could be used as a gravel load, appropriately colored. If you have steam locos an ash/cinders pit and outgoing loads. Could also be mixed in with other material to represent gravel/stone in a river or stream.
Just some thoughts.
Good luck,
Richard
That is astonishingly interesting! I am with NittanyLion wondering if that label is driven from possible iron content from some sort of prior contact.
Used carefully, I really don’t see much issue, especially if you strain some of it in HD bags & a powerfull magnet, as has been suggested numerous times for all ‘Natural Ballast’ here on the forum.
Something must have driven that labeling issue.
Any one here who has experience with this product, care to weigh in? (I do not, as it baffles me)…
Thanks for sharing that, & bringing to the discussion!
I’d contact SE and tell them what’s up. I doubt of you’re the first one confused by a product like that. More than likely, they’ll be happy to swap it for something you’ll have more use for if you mail it to them and it’s in saleable condition.
I have a lot of scenery, but I’d be hard pressed to use 4 pounds of cinders that couldn’t be used as ballast.
Shame on Scenic Express for marketing such crap in the first place. If not ballast or yard material, what are you supposed to use such stuff for in the first place?
Rich
Someone somewhere probably had a problem hence the warning. There are a couple of issues with using real cinders. First there may be a slight residual metal content. It would be interesting to pass a strong magnet over the cinders and see if anything happens. The other concern is that cinders and ash are abrasive and if they release a fine dust that can rapidly wear your gears and perhaps wheel bearings. But as a practical matter, is this really a problem? I suspect guys have been using crushed cinders as ballast or scenic material for decades.
The electrical aspect to their warning seems to refer either to track shorting out where the ballast touches the rails and acts as a modest conductor, to situations where electrically live and uninsulated stuff goes right through the cinders. One example would be the sort of overhead catenary or line poles that a traction layout would have.
But again is this a real issue? I’d suggest trying to use some of the ballast on a test piece of track and i would also make sure it is not “loose” but is firmly bonded with matte medium or diluted glues.
Dave Nelson
There seem to be allerts or warnings on many things these days.
And, Like many things, it is also probably “known in the state of California to cause cancer”.
[8-|]
ACRR46 -
It is probably the same as sand blasting grit which is made from ground coal ash from power plants. It is very magnetic. That is why the advise against it. I can get into motors and other things and cause problems.
On the Scenic Express web site there are listings for cinders either course or fine and light or dark with no mention of the word ballast. The description doesn’t say to use or not use for ballast. The warning not to use it for ballast should have been in the description
Below these listings they list the WS materials which are described as being for ballast.
Obviously their listing is very confusing and misleading., hopefully not on purpose.
Bob
Since the State of California identifies most everything as causing some kind of problem, would this be limited to use in the State of California? Many products with their label are sold outside the Stae of California and no media crisis so far. My main question is why call it Ballast if use as such will cause problems to electronics and mechanical equipment, why not ground cover? False labelling?
magi46,
Please read my post above.
It is not called or labeled ballast. It is scenicing material listed next to WS material that is labeled and correctly called ballast.
Why would Scenic Expess put the warning on the package and not in the product description??
That is the question.
Bob
The latest edition of the Scenic Express catalog, #16, still lists these cinders as ballast on Page 137, with the following description:
New! Improved Ballast – Natural Stone - Protoscale Quality. Real stone and natural aggregates. Available in 1-quart bottles with spoon & pour cap, 1/2-gallon re-sealable gripper jugs and our NEW Burlap Bulk MEGA-SACKS. The perfect ballast for every size layout!
Listed as 4 varieties: Light Cinder Fine; Light Cinder Coarse; Dark Cinder Fine; Dark Cinder Coarse.
No further description provided except a picture of each type.
cacole,
After reading your post I went to the Scenic Express web site and looked for cinders. What I saw was different than yesterday. Maybe the heat is getting to me.
I did find what you are referring to, but in the description it states to click on the image for more details which are as follows:
"Real stone and natural aggregates. Universal Scale. Also available in 1/2-gallon size (SE0856). PLEASE NOTE: WE RECOMMEND WHEN PREMOISTENING CINDERS TO ADD RUBBING ALCOHOL TO “WET WATER” SOLUTION TO BREAK DOWN THE SURFACE TENSION: (1-qt. water & 2 teaspoons dishwashing liquid and 1 cup rubbing alcohol). CAUTION: Use caution when mixing the rubbing alcohol so as not to inhale the vapors. CAUTION: THIS MATERIAL MAY CONTAIN NATURALLY OCCURRING METAL PARTICLES WHICH INTERFERE WITH TRACK OPERATIONS AND ELECTRICAL SYSTEMS. ADHERE WITH MATTE MEDIUM. ONCE DRY, PASS A STRONG MAGNET CLOSELY OVER APPLIED AREA TO PICK UP ANY METALLIC PARTICLES! (Same as item SS8200-3 catalog #14). " The op could follow the instructions and use what he has for ballast. Bob |
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On mainlines real railroads generally used cinders as the first layer, covering a fairly wide area, then put track and stone ballast on top of the cinder “bed”. The cinders usually stuck out a foot or two either side of the ballasted area.