I have not used this mixture yet & have not seen Sassi’s book. Is this to be used as a base for further ground cover? I assume this is a rough texture. Has anyone mixed Vermiculite with molding plaster of paris?
Larry
Having never used Permascene before, I was not sure what it was. I therefore assumed by the name it was something that provided permanace to whatever it was used for. Something like plaster. I therefore set about trying different things with plaster at first. Celluclay and sculptamold and even textured paint. In both cases I found the plaster did not set as hard. It tended to crack after drying in place where it was too thin and not normally in areas it would crack. My take is that they mix OK, may look good, but do not bond together when drying properIy. have not tried Vermiculite. I probably will not try since i have had poor results mixing with plaster (except for sawdust-- that worked OK)
I have had good success mixting sculptamold and celluclay together. and now celluclay with vermiculite and sculptamold with vermiculite. Considering i can now find compatible ingriedents I will not play any more finding my own. the vermiculite adds filler and makes the mixture in both celluclay and sculptamold go twice as far. thus saving a tad of money on both very expensive products.
Cletus
Is Vermiculite a name brand or is it how the name is sold, I used Permascene and found it worked very well, with ease of spreading it as such, Thanks
cwaldman
sounds like i will not try to mix it with plaster. I have not used celluclay or scultamold yet. Thanks
pacificnorthern
STA-GREEN is the brand name (RED BAG) at Lowes vermiculite is a hodicultural product. I have never used the mixture but I assume it is to be used as a base with a rougher texture for ground cover.
Larry
Larry,
Not to be a “rivet counter,” but I don’t believe it’s used primarily as a ground cover. According to my copy of Merriam-Webster, it’s “a lightweight highly water-absorbent material.” Those properties make it useful for model railroad scenery, but I think it would blow away if used as ground cover. I think it is used to make poor soils more friable.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543
Vermiculite is ground mica, which is a kind of rock mineral. It is very light and absorbs water well.
It is used as a component in scenery mixes because it is light weight and slighly “plastic” in nature, which makes your scenery “plaster” mix lighter and somewhat rubberlike.
If you mix it in with your scenery plaster, you need to use a fine grade or it will make big lumps not unlike the large bumpy ceiling texture you see in some homes. Here is one source of fine grade vermiculite online:
http://seeds.thompson-morgan.com/us/en/product/m11988/1
I use it in my scenery plaster mix because it makes the plaster shell lighter and somewhat “rubbery”, rather than brittle. I like to plant model trees using an awl to poke holes in the scenery and then just poke in the tree with a dab of hot glue on the end.
My own personal scenery mix uses Portland cement, Patching Plaster, and Vermiculite. Here’s the formula:
1 part Portland Cement
3 parts Patching Plaster
4 parts fine grade Vermiculite
Add just enough water to get a thick but-slightly-runny paste that holds its shape – not so dry that it falls apart or so wet that it is runny like cake batter. This yields a gray sandy mixture that I apply as my scenery base over cardboard strips and masking tape. I put the base mixture on about 1/4" thick, and it sets up in about 30 minutes or so.
If you mix in too much cement, this mixture will turn into a brick in your mixing bucket in just a few minutes. I have found the above formula works well because the cement speeds up the patching plaster set time somewhat.
BOB. As my post states mixture, I did not mean to be used as ground cover by itself but as a mix with celluclay for a base for futher ground cover.
Larry
Joe, Thanks for the info and I like your site been there several times.
Larry
The scenery crew of a neighboring RR club have had very good results with adding cellulose(blown-in insulation) to unical. They apply the mixture over wire cloth and screen. I haven’t experimented with it yet, the heavy screening seems awkward to work with even though they apparently have had no trouble (used on very large mountain/ hills, no support needed), I am hesitant. Has anyone else tried this mix and screening? I am holding off scenicing a critical hillside while a better method comes to mind. This spot needs access below for a hidden track. Any suggestions or comments would be welcome.
Bob K.
What is unical? I thought that was the 21st century of the oil company that used to be called Union 76.
I just mixed up a goop batch using Vermiculite and substituting Sculptamold for Celluclay. It turned out to have a rough, but good ground like texture when dried.
I don’t even know what Celluclay is. I have a bag of Claycrete which is a paper mache/ plaster kind of stuff. Is Celluclay similiar??
REX
Rex, Celluclay is instant paper mache/ they have it in bright white & gray.
Larry
I thought that was the stuff Liposuction removed :-)!!!
I would like to report that I have substituited Scuptamold for the Celluclay in ‘ground goop’ and it works quite well.
I have used Celluclay a bit. You have to be aware of it’s slow drying time, which is basically evaporation. It can take days for a thick coat, and mold growth is a possibility in a damp basement as it dries. I have heard adding Chlorox to the water as you mix it will help. Better to apply in thin coats and allow to dry. The surface tends to be rough, but that’s OK for a scenery base. Once dry, it is hard and can be shaped.
Those are all good formulas. reading Sassi’s book is worth the effort.
My GOOP formula is premixed lightweight dryway seam compound, sawdust(coarseness determined by desired look), latex paint for liquid and color, a little Lysol to fight the mold and enough water for the desired thickness. I paint it on with a brush or sulpt it with a knife. I like the slow sureing time so I can work on it for a couple of days for desired effect.
This is not better than the others but for me cheaper and easier to work with.
I am fairly new to the modeling Train world but have used this combination with an earth colored paint for experimenting and works very well with me; I personally liked the slow drying time so I could take my time to Sculpt; (does seem to be a bit rougher texture) when finished, you can put this in a sealed container and can still use it months later(not sure if this is the same for other materials or not) I found Vermiculie at Wal-Mart in the Potting Soil section and I believe this was also explained in one of the Railroader magazines from approx a year ago…hope this helps…
Joe is right as usual. Personally, I just use a commercial product called “structolite” (AKA gypsolite) which is basically the same components premixed in 25 or 50 pound bags. About the same cost and far less effort finding ingredients. Just visit the lumber yard and buy a bag. It works extremely well for most kinds of ground from plain dirt to rock ledges.
Karl
Here are some pics of my results. If you look closely you can see that I did not get the fine vermeculite but I like the results. After adding grass, weeds, trees, shrubs, and all the other details those small clumps will look ok.
Just give it a shot. I used joint compound, vermeculite,and latex paint, all mixed to me satisfaction. If you look again at the pics you will see that I did not use the same amount of paint and therefore the foreground apears lighter in color.
P.S. some of the loose material in the lowest areas is actally bug killer, the ants went crazy over this stuff.