CHANGING FROM DC TO DCC

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

Hello Model Railroaders & Merry Christmas!

I’m operating a DC layout with blocks (cab control). Most of my locos are DC. I have a few that are DC ready. What would it involve to switch over to DCC? Would I have to re-do all the blocks,switches & wiring? Also, what would I have to get to operate my non-DC locos.

I guess maybe I’m thinking in these terms because of all the good things I’ve been reading in the forums and in books about DCC. With the block control, you’re constantly moving switches and alot of monkey business to get your trains running. It kinda takes away the joy of just being able to run your trains. Any info. would be greatly appreciated. I’m almost half way through building the layout but the track is in place already.

Thank you.

BNENGR

2

Two wires to your track and yer done installing the new DCC.

Now having said that, you need to think about your situation regarding reverse loops, wiring sizes and capacities.

If there are reversing loops, you will need a auto reverser of some sort or a smart command station that will do it for you.

Also you need to choose a system that you can feel comfortable with. My big bazillion binary crunching power hog of a Super Chief might be way too much. Some start with basic DCC systems that barely are above trainset level.

Others choose systems like the Zephyr or similar and expand.

Your engines WITHOUT decoders on board will have to be re-evaluated for future use in DCC. You might find easy plug-n-go or painful hardwiring with butchery and botched jobs.

DCC gives each of your decoder equippted engines a name. Usually the last two digits on the side of the cab but not always. These engines all listen to the DCC system for any commands you send that might be addressed specifically to them. Choo choo 3 might trundle past the yard switcher 5 on it’s way out of the yard. Both might be working totally different directions. But choo choo three is under your present control.

That is why I say two wires and yer done. Rip up and toss all of that DC crap. But wait!!! here is more…

You might want to keep your blocks and use power protection so that if one part of the layout shorts you dont bring the entire thing to it’s knees.

One thing is gauranteed. DCC is a signal and requires good trackwork. Any crappy track or poor connections WILL show up.

My switches listen to the DCC station for thier commands as well. But they are kept apart with thier own wall power and thier own seperate wiring system in a different set of color.

Example…

DCC Track power… Red and black.

Switch wiring… yellow and green.

and so on.

BEFORE you hook the brand shiney new DCC system TO the layout… FIND the Program Track connections, us

3

Hello!

If I understand you correct you haven’t wired all blocks to switches yet?

Tracks

All your blocks can be connected to a feeder bus without any switches. There are one exception for that, if you have a reverse loop you need to connect that one to a special device that switches the polarity automatically when a loco comes in on that block.

If you are building a very big layout you might need more than one booster.

Turnouts

May be you want to control the turnouts from your DCC throttle? Than you have to control your turnouts with DCC decoders, thera are a lot of different switch macines and decoders to choose from.

Locomotives

You need to install a decoder in most locomotives. It is possible to operate a DC locomotive on your DCC system, the loco address 00 is for DC locos. That mean that you can run one DC loco together with the decoder equipped locos at the same time. You can of course have two or more DC locos in a consist in the same way you run them on a DC layout.

RTFM = Read The Fine Manual

I myself is using Digitrax and for there haven’t been any problem to findout how to set up my layout from the instrucktion in the manuals. You can download them from the net and read them long before you buy your DCC equipment.

I suggest you read the manuals from different manufacturers in order to find the DCC equipment that suits you best.

4

HEY B

I also run DC but have wired it for DCC and have recently helpled a freind switch over from DC to DCC, we did not change out any of his blocks, we have kept them intact and opertaional mainly to help detect any shorts that may crop up,would be difficult to find a short on a DCC set up with no blocks so leave them in and just leave them all powered as you run your DCC,your switches are fine as they are right now,you can make a change later and run them off the DCC control with decoders for your switches, but thats something you can look at later, Your wiring will be fine for now as it is,you can also change that later if you feel the need that will be up to you, As far as your Non DCC you will have to hard wire Decoders into them, sounds hard but not really the instructions are fairly easy to follow and once you have done 1 it goes fairly fast, on the really older engines you will have to insulate the frame and that gets a little more technical or you can have someone do it for you for a small price. On most of the newer Locos they come with DCC ready plugs so you can slip a decoder into them and go from DC to DCC, or to go from DCC to DC pull out the decoder and slip the jumper plugs back in and your off.

Even though I am DC I could be up and running DCC in less than 15 minutes with no track or wiring modifications to my layout, it’s fairly easy… Have go.

Have fun…

Mike

5

I’m going to assume that you’ve got a reasonably well-mannered layout right now. Your trackwork is good, and your DC system is in good shape. Wiring is solid, and you don’t have any power issues. Because you’ve got multiple blocks, it’s a decent sized layout, too.

I came back to this hobby after 40 years away. My HO trains came out of the attic, horn-hooks, brass track and all. I started to build a DC layout, but a minor financial windfall allowed me to move to DCC early in construction. I can honestly say that when I ran my first DCC train, my old brain was replaced by that of an eight year old, and I was having all the fun that a kid has with trains again. Yeah, it really is that good.

One comment that’s often heard to describe the difference between the two systems is that DC runs the tracks, while DCC runs the trains. This is true both in the literal and figurative sense. While you control the speed and direction of all the locomotives in a DC block by varying voltage and polarity, in DCC, each locomotive is addressed differently, and its speed and direction are controlled by the digital signals added to the “waveform” placed on the track.

DCC systems are controlled by NMRA standards at the track level. So, every DCC system should work with every DCC locomotive, regardless of manufacturer. It’s important, though, to note that these standards apply only at the track level, and don’t extend back to the control systems themselves. So, a Digitrax throttle can’t be plugged into a Lenz control bus. There is very little compatability at the control level, so this is where you need to evaluate the characteristics of each system when choosing which one to buy. Personally, I like the “feel” of the large buttons on the Lenz 100 throttle more than the “cell phone” buttons on most other throttles, but that’s a personal choi

6

BNENGR,

First off: [#welcome] to the forum! Good to have you aboard! [:)]

You’ve gotten good answers to your question so far. Let me also provide you a handy link to a good primer on DCC called DCC for Beginners from Tony’s Train Exchange. You can either read it online or download it onto your computer as a .pdf file.

Hope that helps…

Tom

7

Guys:

While everything you have said is true, it is not all required. You are going to scare him off by bragging about the complexity that is possible.

Step one: Convert the DCC ready locos. That is simple. Buy a 20 dollar decoder that has a plug. Open the engine and plug it into the only place it fits. You may have to remove a dummy plug. They will still run on the DC system.

Step two: Buy a simple but expandable DCC system like the Digitrax Zephyr, or whatever brand appeals to you.

Remove the DC Power pack and hook the same wires to the DCC unit and turn all the blocks on except any reversing loops.

Play with the DCC locos. Notice that you can control speed and direction of your trains independent of each other. Notice that the lights don’t get brighter or dimmer when you change the speed. You will now be totally sold on DCC.

Now that you have experienced individual control of your trains, and are in that newfound state of euphoria, you may read the other posts here. The possibilities now open to you in your new DCC world are endless, and you can acquire new skills and features as you go.

Converting the engines that are not DCC ready requires some skill. You can do it yourself, or you can have a technician do it.

8

I’m following all this with interest, after 35 years of DC control , when I retire in January I’ll be buying a DCC set. Don’t know which one yet. I would prefer one that will read back CV’s. So keep typing guys , I’m listening.

9

Among the many things that are possible with DCC:

You can control sound from the throttle, and the speakers are in the engine. Not just bells and whistles or horns, but engine and steam sounds that change with engine speed, coupler crashes, air releases, etc.

You can customize the sound.

You can, if you like, operate your switches from the walk around throttle.

You can program switch routes so that selecting and throwing a single switch can throw all the switches required to form the route such as in a yard ladder.

You can use detection to tell you when a block is occupied by any stock that uses electricity, such as a loco, or a lighted car.

You can use that detection to automatically throw a switch that is in the wrong position when a train approaches from the back side.

You can use transponding to tell you where a given piece of equipment is on the layout.

You can use detection to control signals automatically, including RR crossing gates.

You can even turn lights around the layout off and on from the throttle.

Of course each of these things requires decoders. Like model railroading in general, DCC is a Barbie Doll. There is an endless supply of “extra cost accessories”

10

Barbie Doll! LOL.

11

There’s no reason to disconnect your blocks from the switches they’re wired to. Just turn all the blocks on with maybe the exception of sidings and/or spurs where you’re storing DC locos. I switched over to DCC over a year ago and still have my layout set up in blocks. This allows me to run the DCC locos on the maiin line while also operating a switcher on DC shuffling cars around.

12

It gives new meaning to “Never the twain shall meet.”

I certainly hope they don’t. I suspect that an accidental crossing from the DCC side to the DC side, or vice versa, could have some very negative consequences.

13

It can make life interesting.

14

I too have block wiring that was controlled by 4 separate power packs and all i did was pull out the power packs, turn on all the block toggles, and wired each of the power pack wires to 4 separate circuit breakers and then installed the DCC command station.

I also wired up a programming track to program the decoders. Later, I hooked up a computer to the programming track and with a locobuffer II (I forgot to mention that my system is a digitrax super chief radio control 8 amp DCC system) I downloaded decoderpro to easily program the decoders.

A decoder has to be installed in each locomotive for the DCC system to work. Be sure to read about installing decoders in the different manufacturers of locomotives. Each one is different, especially if you have Athearn (BB) Blue Box locomotives. The motors have to come out and be insulated from the frame for DCC to work. Tony’s Train Exchange has all the info for that. I spent about a month reading all there is to read at Tony’s train Exchange before purchasing my DCC system. I was considering a NCE DCC system but had to go with Digitrax because If i wanted to run my stuff on my friend’s layout, I’d have to use a Digitrax system because all my railroad buddies use digitrax. Decoders can be used by any system. Throttles and command stations on one system will not work on other systems.

DCC is not cheap. I spent about $700 for all of the system components and about $35.00 a piece for each individual decoder. There are systems that aren’t as pricey, but i have a large railroad and wanted a top of the line system. The top 4 are Digitrax, Lenz, NCE, and Easy DCC. You won’t go wrong purchasing any one of these systems.

I’ve been into DCC for little over a year and all i can say is that once you’ve ran on a DCC system you’ll never go back to a DC sys