When RR tracks are removed, are there ever problems with the soil underneath because of what the RR ties are treated with?
You’ve asked a rather profound question!
Since wooden ties are so often oil base treated, and water and oil doesn’t mix, the answer to your question is probably little effect. Also, since most ties are ballasted, the ballast probably acts somewhat like the cleaning ability of rocks in rivers.
To be safe, I guess whatever the answer is to your question, concrete ties would probably be the most contamination-free to use.
Creosote is pretty much an organism-specific compound - prevents bugs and other enemies of wood from tearing the ties up any faster than anything else.
While areas of large concentrations of ties might be different, one only has to look at the speed with which Mother Nature reclaims an unused roadbed to realize that the effect is minimal.
Further, the creosote will leach out of the ties very slowly, also minimizing the effects.
It depends upon the environmental law of the state in which the track removal occurs, and the environmental sensitivity of the surrounding land, water tables, fisheries, etc. If required by law, the ballast has to be screened to remove all the wood splinters. The wood splinters along with all the broken ties and ties that have no second-hand value then go to an approved landfill.
RWM
Want to take this in a whole new direction?.. lets talk about what is found after shops are closed. I know PCBs are a problem in some.
Spilled diesel and oil.
Industrial facilities like railroad shops are a whole 'nother ballgame. Barring a major spill, or extremely heavy use, most rail lines keep the leaked stuff pretty spread out. Doesn’t mean we can’t discuss them, though. There were some pretty nasty chemicals used back in the day - stuff that has only recently been discovered to be really, really bad for you. (Back then it was just bad for you - or wasn’t thought of as dangerous at all. At one time they perfumed trichlor so it didn’t smell as bad to the people who were getting it on their skin, breathing the fumes, etc…)
PCBs are an issue with the GG1’s - a real headache for those who want to preserve them.
If we go back not all so many years, another issue along the tracks was raw sewage…
Well the Zephyr line behind the house I live in will probably be ripped up next year.
Generally not, at least not any more than it’s an issue when the line is still in service. In theory, any “release” from the ties is equally bad in either status. Practically, no one usually cares about it as long as the line is still in service, and there is an argument to be made that no uncontrolled release - or any release at all - has occurred as long as the line is still in use and the conditions are being actively and properly managed. Conceptually, the creosote on the ties is no different from drums of chemicals at a manufacturing plant - i.e., they’re OK, as long as they stay where they belong. If they leak and start migrating off-site or into the groundwater, though, then the problems begin.
Plus, most tracks - esp. abandoned ones - have a lot of dust and dirt that absorbs the creosote and tends to keep it from going anyplace else. Further, the “leach-out rate” is pretty slow, since creosote doesn’t readily dissolve in rainwater, and is pretty dispersed into the ballast anyway. Also, as with many other environmental contamination problems, “Dilution is the solution !”.
Finally, in my experience (eastern Pennsylvania area) some sampling and testing of the roadbed is usually done before conversion to a rail-trail. Despite what you might think, I’ve never heard of a problem, outside of former yard and terminal areas, and tghere are a lot of those trails around here. Again, even if a leak occurred from a freight car - other than if concentrated at a derailment site - it most likely just dribbled out as the car rolled along, and since has been further dispersed by rain, track maintenance operations, etc.
- Paul North.
Even though the creosote is forced into the ties under pressure with steam. Does any of it eventually leak out onto the roadbed. I know some ties are very dark from creosote and some VERY light with almost no sign of the creosote in them. In areas of heavy weather (rain, snow and ice) this would be more likely then in dry arid areas.
This is really a superfun . . . I mean superfund . . . topic.
Gabe
When the Texaco refinery was torn down in the 90’s [I think was] it came under the super fund cleanup. By the old NYC’s Cairo line was already gone, but that area was also included in the cleanup also.
inch
When some of the branches in the Anthracite area of Pennsylvania were built the railroads were in such a hurry to build they used every source of fill they could get. This included coal fines which were generally considered waste at that time. So in the 1960s and 70s when many of the branches were pulled up mining companies would go into areas where coal fine fill was used and “re-mine” this material.
Most engine facilities go back to the days of steam. I have been at one where the oil was so penetrated into the ground that you left little puddles of oil on the surface where you walked until it could be reabsorbed. The oil had penetrated at least ten feet and there was a large concern as to how to clean it up. Creosote on ties will definitely leach into the roadbed. I suspect that is going to be an individual case clean up based on state law. Don’t overlook the political element if a politician finds out and can get a couple of votes from blaming “big” business for their lack of concern about the environment. Quite frankly, the standards today are so clean and most of the country is that there isn’t enough business for the haz mat companies to survive. That is why there are constant mergers and buy outs occurring.
It can’t be too dangerous because they harvest the ties for sale and these things frequently show up as cribbing in garden plots. They are, I understand, washed down with steam prior to sale but are marketed to the public for the same reason that they are marketed to the railroads in the first place.
Folks:
One huge issue that has not been brought up is the high concentration of potentially deadly dihydrogen monoxide (DHMO) that builds up under many railroad lines.
DHMO contamination of railroad ROW is much more common in some parts of the country - for instance, the industrial Northeast has much, much more than many parts of the Southwest.
Look at the facts:
-Thousands of children play in pools or drink beverages contaminated by shocking quantities of DHMO.
-No municipal water system is able to filter out DHMO.
-DHMO is a common industrial solvent generally emitted into lakes, streams, and rivers by the users, including railroads, who have practiced this method of DHMO disposal for many years. No sewage treatment facility is able to remove it. Powerplants, even nuclear plants, spew vast quantities of DHMO into the atmosphere.
-DHMO is by far the foremost contributor to global warming, responsible for 99% of the greenhouse effect.
-DHMO and DHMO-containing substances have been implicated in thousands and thousands of deaths, injuries, and poisonings
And yet, with the overwhelming evidence against it, the EPA still fails to regulate this common chemical. Write your congressman today and take a stand!
[;-)]
I know CPR won’t let any of there ties go to anything of that nature for two reasons. 1 is the liabilty of giving those to people for retaining walls, garden plots, or fence posts because Creosote is bad for the ground and ground water. and 2 they make money from a place that chips them up and burns them to produce energy. So, they are making money from the old ties. I remember hearing that back in the milwaukee road days they used to give the ties away. You just had to fill out a form from the section foreman and take what you wanted. For the road bed being contamiated, I’m sure it is. Just think of the stuff that might leak out of some of the cars, rail grease that is applied to the rail, or anything that the engines might “burp” out. I would think that it can get pretty bad. I know that in the state of WI it is illegal to put any ties in the ground because of the Creosote. Of course ties that are in the ground are grandfathered in.
Thanks
Justind
DHMO: just water under the bridge.
You also need to be careful about hydrogen hydroxide and hydro oxic acid. The one is a weak base and the other is a weak acid; together they form the closest thing to a universal solvent, even when they occur in an equimolar mixture.