I know all the oldest ex-C&NW gallery cars have been sold or scrapped, but what about ealiest (1951-1952) Budd-built stainless-steel Burlington cars?
Hi Dave -
Oldest of the ex-Q gallery cars were replaced by the most recent order of Metra gallery cars (6000-series coaches and 8500-series cab cars). I think lowest numbered of the ex-Q cars still running is around 740 or so. Federated Railways (owner of the former AA line north out of Ann Arbor) bought a number of the ex-Q gallery cars. Hope this helps! Art
Helps a lot. What are the builders dates of the oldest cars still running? On the whole METRA system as well?
Hi Dave - follow-on orders of CB&Q gallery cars were delivered in 1953 (15 cars), 1955 (5 cars) and 1957 (forget the quantity right now). As of a year or so ago, there were still 1953-built cars running. These cars were showing up in Southwest Service (ex-Wabash) consists, as well as continuing to run on the BNSF service. Hope that helps! Art
Thanks! Budd built them well. 55 years old and still in service!
Were those cars for sure built by Budd and not Pullman-Standard? IIRC the CNW’s original cars were built by Pullman-Standard. - a.s.
Al when I get some time tomorrow I will do some double checking but I believe St Louis car buit the first C&NW Gallery cars the second order for C&NW came from P/S. The CB&Q ordered the first Gallery cars from Budd for Chicago - Aurora service.
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Thanks; catch you later!
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I also have some vague notion from something I read years ago that one of these carmakers was granted a basic patent ca. 1953-54. Not for the two-level coach concept, which had been in service for some years already, but for putting a big door in the middle and thus sparing the passengers the necessity of queing up and going thru some vestibule to an and-of-coach door (of which there are none IIRC).
The thread lists the CB&Q cars and as far as I can remember I never saw anything but Budd commuter cars on the Racetrack while the CB&Q and BN ran the place. I note also that the oldest Budd cars have been sold for reuse. And then, of course, there are both the Canadian run by VIA and New York’s R-32’s subway cars, which still amaze by their reliability compared to some of the neward cars, and newer cars (IRT R-33’s and R-36’s) have been scrapped or “reefed.”
Correction: In addition to the Budd gallery cars, the “Q” for a time ran converted standard midium-heavyweight four-wheel-trucked coaches for suburban service, and in the post-WWII era they had head-end power, air-conditioning, and were painted green and tan with yellow or cream trim. Also initially, head-end power was supplied by generator cars, converted from older arch-roof plain Jane suburban cars, similar to what the Northwestern used before its gallry cars took over (also the NYC in Putnam and Boston suburban service). The E-units used back in those days were in a pool with the long distance trains and were still equipped for steam heating. Later, after all the non-streamlined equipment was sold or scrapped, the Q did buy some surplus single-level C&NW long-distance coaches, Pullman or ACF, not stainless steel but painted so by the Q, and occasionally these would also show up in suburban service.
Push-pull operation with stainless-steel cab-cars and conversion of E-units to supply head-end power was done by the Q and BN and did not wait until METRA. I think Budd was still in business at this time and built the cab-cars.
Hi all - Passenger fan is correct that St. Louis built that first group of CNW gallery cars, and thereafter the orders for the CNW fleet went to Pullman. Art
CNW led the way to the push-pull operation (I want to say ca. March or April of 1961? but just a guess without having any of the photos in front of me) with cab cars and they were also the first to HEP-equip locos for this service. Q followed suit, along with Rock and Milwaukee adopting this operating practice. Art
HEP-equipped locomotives on C&NW predated their use in suburban service. Some E’s and F’s were equipped with HEP in 1958 when the Peninsula 400 and Flambeau 400 were re-equipped with 96-seat long-haul bi-level coaches.
But the Burlington Budd gallery cars were first used around 1951-1952, and occasionally ran behind 4-6-2 steam locomotives initially! I don’t think the C&NW ever ran gallery cars behind steam, or did they? I am, of couirse, referring to normal suburban service and not fan trips.
Back around 1993/4 I rode on the second CB&Q high level,701.
When I first moved to the area in 1980, Metra was already in effect, IIRC, but the trains running the three old CNW suburban lines were mostly still in CNW yellow and green livery. This gradually gave way to a Metra scheme of mostly white with neutral red banding (at the level of the windows IIRC), and neutral tan band (down the coach body).
IIRC most if not all of those slabsiders were delivered by Pullman-Standard for the CNW. When Metra had been in for a number of years the slabsiders were slowly supplanted by the (corrugaged) streamlined coaches of today. I’m not sure who delivered them, but they look and act a lot like the Metra coaches running on the BNSF Racetrack today. - a. s.
Hi Dave - the CNW St. Louis-built gallery cars did run behind steam. Have a shot of one of the re-numbered Pacifics pulling a train at Clybourn which includes both gallery cars and single-deck cars in the train.
Al-in-Chgo mentioned the Pullman-built cars, and the Rock received some cars from Pullman (I know there were cab cars in that order, but I believe there were also coaches). They were delivered around the time the Rock had adopted that brighter red and yellow scheme. Stood out very nicely when pulled by a matching locomotive! Under Metra, those ex-RI Pullman gallery cars were transferred to the ex-CNW lines (I recall they received numbers in the 7880-series). The side window design was converted to the same style as that used on the more numerous ex-CNW cars at that time, as well. That reduced the parts/maintenance burden a bit.
Have a great weekend! Art
Rock Island’s first cars were Budd, 15 coach and 5 cab car, entered service in 1965. The second order were P/S tacked onto a CNW order, again 15 coach and 5 cab cars. The P/S cars came after the RI and UP traded E units. Two UP units were quickly converted to HEP.
I assume the Pacifics were renumbered because they were equipped with much larger generators to provide more head end power, air condtioning and heat as well as light.
The Q did not modify any steam locomotives but used generator cars while there were any steam locomotives in suburban service (beyond the initial modification years earlier to probide current for lighting) and for some time afterward.
CNW 1500-series Pacifics got renumbered into the 500s to make more room for GP7s rolling in the door. Art
G’ evening, all,
I rode the C&NW daily 7:21-am in and the 5:41pm-out between 1970 and 1978 (northwest line to Park Ridge) and …
I saw P/S plates on the double deckers. I do think I recall Budd plates, but only on a single level “Bankers-Express Car” that ran form Crystal Lake and Barrington, and the sister coach that ran the North Line to Glenco-Kennelworth and beyond.
THUS, my corrolary question, what became of those single level coaches? Were they indded Budd, or were they also P/S-?