Al,
If taking the N&W you’d change at Bluefield to the Pochahontas for the trip to Cincy. The Big Four’s James Whitcomb Riley would be the train to take from Cincy to Chicago. On the L&N you’d change at Corbin to the Southland which you’d stay on all the way to Chicago.
My only question is did the L&N still have passenger service on the Pineville - Norton branch in 1953? It was freight only by the summer of 1954.
Mark
Mark, you are SO close to answering all the questions. Re: Trip using L&N – give me some idea of what route or routes the Cincy - Chi leg took, and over which systems. Are you sure there was no change of coaches in Cincy?
I had thought I was okay for 1953 and the Corbin connection at the L&N, but it would take me a while to dig out my 1953 O.G.R. Anyone out there want to help? - allen
Al,
The Southland’s route between Cincy - Chi was over the PRR via Richmond and Logansport. While the Southland’s sleepers ran through from Florida to Chicago I think you are right about coach passengers having to change cars at Cincy. I believe the ACL/L&N coaches carried on the Southland ran only as far north as Cincy and PRR coaches ran from there to Chi.
Norton was at the end of an L&N branch from Pineville where it conected with the Corbin - Lynch line. If you have a '53 OG you might want to check if there was still passenger service to Norton. Even if there was the trip wuld have required a change at Pineville to the train for Corbin.
Mark
L&N timetable 4/27/52 shows #12 Norton to Pineville and #22 Lynch-Pineville-Corbin. L&N timetable 9/28/52 shows #12 Norton to Cumberland Gap, which is 47miles from Pineville, a long walk or taxi ride. 4/27/52 TT indicates all Southland coach passengers change in Cincinnati. L&N schedules show only PRR & B&O connections in Cincinnati. Of course, you could specify NYC routing, but NYC might not hold for L&N connections, whereas PRR & B&O would, since there were through sleepers on the L&N train.
Is my face red! After hauling out and perusing my Jan. 1953 Off. Guide of the Rwys., it seems the only L&N out of Norton was just as you said, going only to Cumberland Gap (one station PAST Harrogate, TN BTW). So appparently the Chi-bound traveler of that era could go from Lynch or Harlan or Pineville (with many intermediate stations) and then have a convenent change to The Southland at Corbin, but the Norton bound train,as stated above, missed that route by many, many miles. Apparently a thru trip was possible just a year earlier, though. It was still possible to take No. 6 from Norton to Bluefield, WV with a convenient change to the WB Pocohontas.
I’ll award KCSFan first refusal on asking the next question, since he answered it all except for voicing some (justified) skepticism about Norton - Corbin L&N thru travel in 1953. Johnny, you know you nailed it so if KCS doesn’t care to post the next question, consider it yours.
Thanks to all! - allen
Norton station
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns1082.jpeg
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns1083.jpeg
Bluefield station
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns238.jpeg
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/F1/NS5988.jpg
N&W map
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/F1/NS4518.JPG
Nice pictures, Mike. Now, which road used which side of the station in Norton? As long as the Interstate had passenger service into Norton, it used the same station that the L&N and N&W used, running a train through Norton on its way between Stonega and Glamorgan (June, 1916 Guide). This train also stopped at the union station in Appalachia.
The Redbird was the PRR’s morning train between Chicago and Cincinnati; the Union was the mid-afternoon train.
Johnny
Johnny,
I don’t have a question handy so you go ahead and ask the next one.
Mark
Johnny hasn’t posted a question yet and since one popped into my mind I’ll go ahead and take a turn.
What paper mill shortline railroad ran a passenger train complete with reclining seat coaches and a sleeping car into the mid-1950’s? What was the route of this train, and the other railroads and trains that carried the sleeper to its final destination?
Mark
Mark can you give us a hint, perhaps the state that the shortline was in?
Johnny
Johnny,
I’ll tell you that it was in the south and a big paper mill owned by its parent company was its principal customer.
Mark
Just a guess: Bowater?
No cigar, Al. Not Bowater.
Mark
Georgia-Pacific? At least it SOUNDS like it could be a RR company. - a.s.
Al, you’re not warm yet but keep guessing.
Mark
Guess:
Aberdeen & Rockfish Railroad?
Passenger Train ran from Aberdeen to Fayetteville until 1954.
Can’t find anything about a sleeper carried further…
Sorry TZ but that’s not the road. The length of this through Pullman route was 372 miles but coach passengers riding that entire distance had to wake up in the wee hours of the morning and change cars and trains.
Mark
Looks like a hint’s in order.
The papermill railroad that handled this consist was the southernmost leg of the entire route and was an interstate RR with one terminal in one state and its other in a neighboring state.
Mark
I never thought of the Atlanta & St. Andrews Bay as being a paper mill road, but the Atlanta-Panama City sleeper that the CG carried on the Southland between Atlanta and Albany and on 7 & 8 between Albany and Dothan before turning the car over to/taking the car from the A&StAB #1/#4 fits the bill.
Johnny
Johnny,
Light your cigar and shoot us another question. Given your knowledge of out of the way Pullman routes I wondered how long it would take you to answer this question. The Bay Line and the trains are all correct. The A&StAB was owned by International Paper for a number of years and their mill at Panama City was the roads biggest shipper. In the June '54 OG the sleeper is listed as 2-Comp, 1-DR, 10-Sec. which seems a rather unusual car for such an obscure route. I’ll bet the Drawing Room was occupied by the porter most nights.
Mark
