I guess we would probably have to include the Milwaukee Road Touralux Sleepers as they to were built post war. They were operated in the Olympian Hiawatha initially later being asssigned to the Columbian and later Pioneer.
The Canadian National streamlined a number of 14 section sleeping cars for assignment to the Continental and Super Continental. The Canadian Pacific added SS panels to a number of 14 Section sleepers for assignment to the Canadian and also the Dominion to match there new Budd cars but they retained there clerestory roofs.
If there’s any interest, and patience to wait for a page to load, there’s a not-too-bad picture of a B&O Slumbercoach on page 285 of “The American Railroad Passenger Car” by John H. White.
Need to scroll up a notch to where the picture is and, if it looks like it’s worth the bother to enlarge, click the little box with 4 arrows to expand the viewing field, and then click the little magnifying glass with the plus sign. I find out all kinds of neat stuff at Google Book Search, like that in 1833 John Quincy Adams and Cornelius Vanderbilt both survived the first fatal train crash, and that there was a through Slumbercoach from Baltimore to San Antonio (and back) on B&O National Limited and MP Texas Eagle from 1959 to 1964.
Here’s a picture of the Texas Eagle in Houston, and what looks like a '53 Chevy
That’s what I also thought about the Touralux sleepers. But in doing some quick research, I found out that in the late1950’s, the Milwaukee Road repriced the Touralux accommodations to the coach-fare-plus-accommodation-charge format so technically, they could be considered.
And the reason the B&O and MP operated the through slumbercoach service to San Antonio from Washington DC instead of Houston was because of the large Military population traveling between the cities selected.
Just a side reference re the Military troop sleepers they were quickly done away with following the war and sold to RRs or even scrap in some cases except for the trucks that were more valuable for fast passenger train serv
The Tourist Sleepers were usually operated with the coach section of the trains and separate from the first class sleepers. Looking through several OGs of the period when these cars were popular I find that being operated by the RRs and not Pullman there was no upgrade to Pullman but just a charge for the sleeping space over and above coach fare.
Pullman wanted to get rid of the tourist sleepers following WW II and did so by telling the Military that the WW II built troop sleepers were not designed to last but were built to see the country through the national emergency. When the military was considering storing the troop sleepers they instead were told the 14 Section and 16 Section sleepers would last far longer and give better service when called upon.
Thus the 14 Section and 16 Section Tourist sleepers were selected for storage for the next national emergency. This was also the way that many 12-1 sleepers also found there way into storage for the military in time of emergency. During the Korean conflict our troops went to the ports in Pullman sleepers and the railroads had rid themselves of the Tourist Sleepers.
The first streamlined trains to bring back this type accommodation was the Milwaukee Road with the Touralux sleepers in the Olympian Hiawatha.
North of the border the CN rebuilt heavyweight tourist sleepers into s
The fact that later tourist sleeper operations were railroad operated is correct but the tourist fare that was being charged was not coach-fare-plus-accommodation-charge but was a tourist-level fare priced between first class and coach. The coach-fare-plus-accommodation-charge concept came with the Slumbercoaches.
Actually the prewar UP Challenger and prewar AT&SF Scout and CRI&P/SP Californian all introduced RR owned tourist sleeping cars with it only being necessary to purchase coach tickets and the accommodation charges. True it did disappear for a time after WW II when the Tourist sleeping cars were done away with but was reintroduced by the Milwaukee with their Touralux cars before the CB&Q introduced the Slumbercoaches. Both CN and CP introduced Tourist sleeper fares before the Slumber coaches were introduced as well. These were found on the CP Canadian and Dominion and CN Super Continental and Continental in 1955 before the Slumbercoaches were introduced in 1956.
Another category of sleeper that the CP (and maybe CN) operated in the earlier fifties was colonist–the passengers provided their own bedding.
In 1907, my mother and her parents and brothers traveled from Seattle to St. Paul on the Oriental Limited in a tourist sleeper–and they prepared their meals in the car, which had kitchen facilities.
This was also true of the so called Tourist sleepers of the CN and CP used in the Super Continental and Canadian. Canada throughout the 1950’s encouraged large numbers of Europeans to immigrate to Canada as there own countries had not recovered from WW II. Large numbers of immigrant ships made there way across the Atlantic to Halifax and St, John in the winter and Montreal and Quebec during the summer where they boarded the trains for new homes in the Prairie Provinces of Manitoba and Saskatchewan. While others traveled further west to Alberta and BC. Those really hardy soles migrated to the Yukon and North West Territories. Even today the entire country of Canada has a smaller population then the state of California with its 5+ million illegals from south of the border.
I love the slumbercoach concept! In 1982 a friend and I took one east on the Water Level Route to NYC and then west back to Chicago on the Horseshoe Curve Route. Our one-over-one compartment was louder and a bit colder than the sleepers, and I think had more exposed surfaces. Nonetheless I slept like a top. I for one would rather ride (or sleep) longitudinally; i.e., in the direction the train is moving, not transversely (sideways).
Now that genuine sleepers are becoming an almost-unaffordable luxury for most of us, I would think that Amtrak would (or should) warm to the idea of extra-fare accommodations that can fit more people in a car than the Viewliners or the newer Superliner type of layout. With no meals included and a more limited porter (oops, attendant) service. - a.s.
As near as I can tell the only car to carry a room of this type was Pullman floor plan #4080. Model Railroaders will recognize this as the “1930’s observation” car produced by Rivarossi and distributed by AHM all through the past three decades.
The first two cars (lot 6548) PRR #8115 Metropolitan View and #8116 Skyline View were purchased for the Broadway Limited. When the Pennsy decided to upgrade the General and use it as the 2nd section of the Broadway Limited they purchased two more cars the Mountain View and Tower View (don’t know the numbers or lot number). Then the PRR also decided to make an equally luxurious train that ran straight to Washington D.C. which required two more cars the Federal View and Washington view. These were originally run in the train called the Liberty Limited. Somewhere in here the General was combined with the Trail Blazer and the combined train got these cars. I cannot find this type of car in any of the St. Louis to Washington trains.
It depends where one ends the streamliner era and the Broadway Limited stopped in 1967, but…
In 1968 two of these cars the Mountain View and Tower View were transfered to the SCL and run on the Florida Special.
One of these cars is still Amtrak certified in service with Iron Horse Enterprise and used in excursions today.
So I think the short answer is four (4): Broadway Limited General Trail Blazer Liberty Limited
after streamline era
Florida Special.
While my Pennsy material is very limited I am suspicious that these cars might have been used for a while in the pool with the Southern for their Crescent Limited.
Cool, what is the reference that you have access to that has this information? Is that the From Zephyr to Amtra**k book you mentioned? I’ve got “Car Names, Numbers, and Consists” by Wayner, but what it has in volume it lacks in picky details of WHEN things changed around.
1-Double Bedroom 2 Master Room Buffet Lounge Observation Pullman Standard May 1938 Plan:4080 Lot 6548 Built for and assigned to prewar PRR Broadway Limited METROPOLITAN VIEW and SKYLINE VIEW. Built for and assigned to PRR Liberty Limited FEDERAL VIEW and WASHINGTON VIEW. Round end observations. When the Broadway Limited received its postwar mentioned below the METROPOLITAN VIEW and SKYLINE VIEW were assigned to the PRR General.
1-Double Bedroom 2 Master Room Buffet Lounge Observation Pullman Standard January 1949 Plan:4133 Lot: 6792 Built for and assigned to PRR Broadway Limited MOUNTAIN VIEW and SKYLINE VIEW. Tapered Blunt End Observations. These were the two Rivarrossi modeled. In the mid 1960’s these cars were often assigned to two of the Florida Specials in winter months.
1 Double Bedroom 1-Master Room Buffet Lounge Observations Pullman Standard May 1938 Plan:4079 Lot 6547 Built for and assigned to NYC Twentieth Century Limited BEDLOWS ISLAND, MANHATTAN ISLAND, PELEE ISLAND and THOUSAND ISLAND. For a period beginning in November 1945 until June 1946 two of these cars were assigned to the Commodore Vanderbilt. This was the other all Pullman train between Chicago and New York. In July 1946 all four cars were pulled from service and rebuilt to 4 Double Bedroom Buffet Lounge Observations and assigned permanently to the Commodore Vanderbilt in September 1946 with two remaining with the Twentieth Century Limited until that train received its new Observations HICKORY CREEK and SANDY CREEK new 5-Double Bedroom Buffet Lounge Observations in September 1948. This means the Twentieth Century Limited operated with a Master Room for only eight years two months.
1 Master Room 2 Drawing Room Buffet Lounge Pullman Standard Plan: 4160 Lot 6814 Built for and assigned to Crescent Limited,
Beautiful! I sent these to my wife; she rode the 20th Century from New York to Chicago on her way to Boise at Christmas when she was going to visit the man she was going to marry (not me; we met in 1971), and again the next May when she left NewYork for Boise. When she started out of the concourse in Chicago to take the City of Portland the first trip, she was amazed by the beauty of the Armour Yellow that the UP used–she had had no idea that any train was painted so.
