I run old school DC but have some “dual mode” locos that really don’t run well on DC. I want to remove the decoders and hardwire them for DC. My question is: since they all have lighting features and some have DC sound, am I just trying to do something not worth doing? Please, no comments on WHY I prefer DC, I DO for many reasons. The reason I bought the locos I did (mostly BLI, both steam and diesels) is because I wanted the road name/paint schemes. But if I can’t run them decently, they will just sit on the shelf. The issues with running are: too much momentum, limited speed control range due to the limited voltage swing (seems like between 8 volts and full throttle is about it), the Rapido SW1200RS’s and RS18’s have the same issues along with weird lighting issues (like class lights on one side work, but not the other). But my main issue is limited speed range control. BTW I’m using MRC 9500 power packs. they perform beautifully on my older DC stuff. Thanx!
The one “sure-fire” way to make your locomotives operate on DC rail power is to simply eliminate the decoder altogether.
A second method might require more experimentation and may, or may not, provide you with “DC sound and lighting effects”, and that would be to clip the two motor leads and solder them to the right (+ for forward) rail pickup and left pickup.
This is “essentially” the way the Blue Line locomotives were wired, with a “dummy plug” substituting an additional motor-only decoder.
In the case for older QSI and also the BLI Paragon sound you will not get any steam “chuff” sound since the decoder relies on motor resistance or in the Paragon, a reed switch chuff sensor.
I’m presently ripping the guts out of several BLI steam locomotives. In my case I’m replacing older QSI decoders with more recent, aftermarket sound decoders.
Part of this process is stripping the locos to bare bones wiring. In the case of BLI steam you have (generally) rail pickup from both sides of the drivers and sometimes trailing trucks and one side of each tender truck.
Thus you can directly solder the motor leads (again motor + to the right rail will move the loco forward) and you’d be done.
Getting into lighting you have to determine weather your headlight is a 1.5 volt incandescent lamp or an LED. There are “constant brightness” diode lighting circuits out there you can use to at least maintain the headlight function.
Eliminating the decoder completely, of course, eliminates any source for sound.
You could experiment with bypassing the decoder as in method one, wiring the motor directly to each rail pickup and see if you still have “some” sounds remaining in “DC mode” but wit
I also prefer DC, and do get annoyed when people constantly ask why.
It comes down to these three factors for me:
I own an extensive fleet of DC locomotives that I do not want to replace or add decoders to.
I do not want sound at all.
I am 100% competent at wiring and troubleshooting DC systems with no help from others.
DC is right for me, and it sounds like for you as well.
I do wish that manufacturers would simply include a jumper plug with locomotives where we could unplug the DCC decoder and run on normal DC. I am also not happy with dual-mode decoders at all.
If this “DC mode jumper” was in there, I would certainly buy more locomotives.
The easiest way to run a dual mode constantly in DC is to unplug the decoder and plug in a “dummy plug” which restores the direct wiring between power pickup and power outputs. Sound disappears. Lights should work.
Another viable option is to buy a MRC Tech 6 dual mode powerpack. Used carefully so as to avoid inadvertently powering DC only locomotives with DCC voltage the Tech 6 works great.
Truly though it makes more sense to just switch over to a DCC system and add decoders to your DC only locomotives. You won’t regret doing so.
I’m somewhat confused, from your Bio you have the experience to convert your locomotives to DC operation easily.
I would just remove the decoders and wire them for DC operation and experiment with the lighting.
I too am a DC guy at hart but wanted sound and after dinking around with Mel added sound for years I decided to go DCC just for the sound. I operate my layout dual mode, DC or DCC, DCC mode when I want to hear the chuff of my articulated locomotives. About 60% DC 10% DCC the rest scenery.
I too am somewhat of a collector, I’m really into restoring clunkers off eBay and train shows. I have a bit over 70 locomotives all restored to as good if not better than original out of the box. I only have 12 decoders and swap them around, I wired all my locomotives for DCC operation using the standard DCC 8 pin sockets with DC adapter plugs for DC operation.
You could go dual mode easily without changing anything, run your DCC locomotives on DCC and the rest in DC mode. A low priced DCC controller could be hooked up to your DC wiring using a DPDT switch. I use a relay with the coil operated by the accessory terminals on my DC power pack. When I turn on the DC power pack the relay pulls in and switches the track from the DCC controller to the DC power pack.
I have quite a few locomotives with either 8 pin or nine “pin” dummy plugs. For example my Athearn Genesis Mikado came from Athearn with a 9 “pin” dummy plug. Many DCC ready locomotives came with a dummy plug or a lightboard equivalent to a dummy plug. Four of my Proto 2000 have a female adapter plug which is where you plug in the decoder. TCS LL8 lightboard replacement decoders plug right in.
Current DCC with sound equipped locomotives may not be as amenable to the dummy plug solution.
The basic problem is you cannot as a practical matter mix DCC with sound and DC only or dual mode non sound locomotives in the kind of operations we generally enjoy. I remain puzzled as to why DC fans keep trying to. If you actually do prefer DC only, you’re not just claiming to, then stop buying locomotives with DCC and sound. Simple solution.
If you really want to run both DCC with sound and DC only then that’s why a Tech 6 exists. Just buy one and use it.
That seems to be where the market is heading, so the upscale model train locomotive market has left me and “MikeyChris” behind.
That is OK. To get the locomotives I want, I would be willing to buy one with DCC and sound. I understand the realities of manufacturing.
I would buy one…
IF…
The manufacturer would provide the information and/or any parts needed to easily and correctly remove the decoder and convert the locomotive to basic silent DC operation.
Kindly count me in with your “left behind” group. My layout is strictly DC, with no fake sounds (depending on what my last meal might have been, of course), and no lights on locos, and cabooses, and none in or on passenger cars and structures, either, as I don’t do “night” operations. I put a lot of effort into my layout, and want to see all of it, all of the time.
My locos are all self-speed matching…simply hang a substantial train on them and they cooperate just fine. No bus wires, either - two wires to the track near the powerpack power every piece of track on the layout.
While I almost never run more more than one train at a time, I have run over a dozen locos at one time, as an amusement chase for my grandkids.
DC may be “old school”, but it’s reliable, easy to troubleshoot and much more affordable than DCC.
As for DCC sound, I’d rate the diesel sounds to be pretty good, those for steam, less-so. However, I do remember steam, and its sounds.
I spent almost four decades in a steel mill…I don’t need anymore sounds, real or artificial.
Note that if you have an engine that’s not decoder equipped - has a green light board with a dummy plug - it’s still most likely going to affect how it runs. Most lightboards are set up to allow for “constant lighting”, meaning the first several volts of power you apply go to the lights, then when you go above that amount the board sends power to the motor. The idea is you can turn the throttle down but not off and the lights will still be on, they won’t turn off when you stop the engine.
That’s all fine, but if you have older DC engines that don’t have the light board, they’re not going to work together that well since the older DC engines will start sooner and run faster. If you have both, you may find it better to just remove the light boards altogether and ‘hardwire’ everything.
And it’s silly to ask people who prefer DC to stop buying locos with DCC and sound when that is the only way some of the locos they want are available (sorry, I thought that part was obvious[%-)]).
You can remove all of the electronics and simply directly connect the truck power to the motor. That would give you the most consistent operations.
Connecting the lights, if you want lights, will probably require resistors in the lighting circuit as to not immediately burn out the LEDs, which are standard equipment now for any loco built in the last 3 or 5 years. And you’ll have to build your own directional lighting circuit.
If it were me, I would seek out green DCC Ready light boards or any old school DC light board. Either new from manufacturers (I think Athearn sells them for example) or used from the auction site. (Many people list them for sale when they convert DC to DCC). The DCC Ready ones MAY have resistor lighting circuits built in, but you may still have to install resistors, and they are all directional lighting when built.
Hi there. I can’t really quote my source (it is another forum), but it appears that some decoders do not perform well with the MRC 9500 power packs. Could it be because of the pulse power? Perhaps someone more knowledge than I could confirm. If the power source is the issue, I would definitely change that before removing decoders and speakers [:$].
Not sure if this is germain but when I was looking to purchse a power pack from MRC I came across this warning:
ATTENTION: MRC has proudly manufactured Power Packs since 1947 and has sold more than 1 Million products to satisfied customers in North America without any issue during this time. Evidently, Rapido Trains, a relatively new train manufacturer has allegedly not made their locomotives suitable for use with MRC’s 1300 & 1370 Power Packs, which have used the same tried and true technology for the last 25 years with UL Certification.
Could that be an issue with your Rapido’s? Trying to be helpful…
