Yesterday, as I was crossing the CSX tracks (ex-NYC) I saw a fully loaded East-bound coal train, apparently waiting for a clear signal. As I crossed the tracks, it dawned on me that I’ve also seen fully loaded West-bound coal trains on that track. The Norfolk Southern (ex-Nickel Plate) which sometimes gets within spitting distance of the CSX through these parts also seems to have coal moving both ways. Saw a West-bound that had a continuous cloud of coal dust coming of the loads that went as far as the eye could see.
So, what’s the scenario here? Pennsylvania anthracite moving west and bituminous heading east? Or, different grades of bituminous moving in both directions - different mines/different customer requirements?
In any case, if you ever felt just a twinge of doubt when you were running those loaded coal trains in both directions on your mainline, this looks like one of those prototype justifications! [8D][;)][:p][:)][:D]
Could be same train both ways… going one way to wye and then back to take opposite side of junction it couldn’t take direct… put another way… it’s just come through a trailing junction (routes converge) and is going back to take the opposite route of the now facing (diverging) junction.
Could do this for regular service or as consequence of a diversion for a brdge out / engineering work / derailment.
Then again… maybe he just got lost?
2nd answer…
Is the line you’re seeing this on a North-South link in East-West routes?
Coal from SW to NE would run north and from NW to SE south… [something like that…[%-)]. Now I’m confused]!
Coal for Rugely Power Station runs by the junction “topped and tailed”, sets back (in “American” makes a “back-up” move) the sets back again into the works… I believe.
Are they making / moving from strategic stock piles?
Just out of interest… how many locos / cars? (What locos/cars)?
I don’t think anthracite is being mined anymore. One of the hurricanes pretty well flooded everything. A couple of thoughts. Steel mill coke ovens require metalurgical grade coal for making coke so that could accouint for the westbound movement. Eastbound could have been Powder RIver low sulfur coal going to a power plant. COuldn’t pick up where you saw these so that is speculation.
My guess would be domestic coal headed one way, and export coal headed the other.
Although it could also be going to two customers in opposite directions.
The tracks are located in Lake County Ohio which is on the Northeast corner of the state. The CSX tracks are the old NYC New York to Chicago which pretty well follows the Lake Erie shoreline. The NS track is the old NKP which is pretty much parallel through that part of the start but I think heads south to Belview blow Cleveland. They all appear to be unit trains with the standard loco lash-ups for each road. I kind of figure that they are hauling grades of coal that are mined in totally different areas of the country and are going to specific customers. Eastbounds to shipping ports also sounds like a good scenario. I know that there were working dumpers for loading into lake ships at Ashtablula and Lorain but I don’t know if they’re still there. Interesting stuff anyway.
A situation like that occured in St. Louis not long ago. Union Electric has a power plan on the former Missouri Pacific main line about 30 miles west of St. Louis. When it was originally built, coal from southern Illinois was used as fuel, so the spur into the plant was built to handle westbound loads in and eastbound loads out. After the Union Pacific merger and due to clean air regulations, lower sulfur content Powder River coal was used to fuel the plant, but those trains could not enter the plant directly on their way from Wyoming. To get them into the plant, loaded eastbounds would pass the plant and go all the way to UP’s yard in downtown St. Louis. The locomotives would change ends and the loads would then go back west and into the plant. Thus, one could watch the 30 or so miles of UP main line between the plant & StL. and see loads go both ways.
I’ve seen photos,back in the days of CR,showing both east and westbound coal trains on that line. Always figured it was export and domestic use coal trains. CSX,locally run coal trains north and southbound loaded between Winchester and Corbin,Ky. Southbound from Winchester include GALX(Georgia Power) ELFX(Electric Fuels Florida) LAKX(City of Lakeland) TVAX(Tennessee Valley Authority) and others. Northbound from Corbin have included trains headed for Maysville over the TTI for barge movements down the Ohio River. The others I’ve seen ship normally in CSX hoppers. These may go to power plants in Ohio.
For the modeler, this offers some operational opportunities. Switching the mine does NOT mean simply dropping off the empties and piocking up the loads. It means picking up the loads that the mine is ready to ship. The mine often needs to use hoppers to store a particular size of coal until they have an order for that size.
On a broader scale, a railroad could certainly be hauling “bunker”, “steam”, “boiler”, and “heating” coal north while hauling “metalurgical” south.
Cool! Good info. OK guys, now no one has to be shy about having those loads moving in both directions on your mainline. Now if anyone asks about it, you have plenty of good reasons, some of which may just really impress the average looker/nit picker.[:D]
Been done. There’s pictures that have been published on the East Broad Top of coal trains meeting, both loaded. The coal cleaning planwas in Mount Union where they interchanged with the Pennsy, at the north end of the RR, sending mine run coal north. The mines were at the south end. While most coal was cleaned, graded, and shipped out on the Pennsy, some was used on line for the railroad and some local coal dealers, so, loads of cleaned coal headed south, with the possibility of loaded trains going in both directions.