Was in Maricopa, AZ. this morning and saw a UP Eastbound coal drag. Train were ragtag group of belly dump cars (not a unit train). Anyone know where this train may be coming from or going? Local AmTrak agent had no idea, except to say this was rare. TIA
Just a guess: the cement plant at Rillito northwest of Tucson. John Timm
If it was loaded when you saw it and since it was west of Rillito, I wonder if the plant (or some other place) is actually burning petroleum coke.
There are several possibilities –
A coal/gas fired power plant in Tucson (Tucson Electric).
A coal/gas fired power plant in Cochise (Arizona Electric Power Cooperative (AEPCO).
Arizona Portland Cement plant in Rillito, northwest of Tucson.
Apache Nitrogen Products in St David, south of Benson.
For interchange with Arizona Eastern Railroad at Bowie for routing northward to Globe and Miami copper mines and smelters.
and there may be some lesser users along the line between Maricopa and New Mexico.
The nearest sources of coal are Book Cliffs and Wasatch Plateau Fields in Utah, or Gallup Field in New Mexico. To move coal by rail eastward on the Sunset Route from Utah requires going west on the LA&SL over Cajon Pass, turning the corner at Colton, and east on the Sunset Route. Gallup coal would also go over Cajon and turn the corner at Colton, and do a BNSF-UP interchange. Neither is out of the question, but generally the coal that has gone to Sunset Route destinations has moved west not east, from the Gallup field via the BNSF-UP interchange at Deming, New Mexico, or from Craig Branch mines in Colorado, via El Paso. I am also thinking this has a good possibility of being pet coke.
RWM
Any chance it was dirty dirt? Are there big repositories for that stuff anywhere?
Would probably have to be covered.
I have a video that shows a dirty dirt train on the D&RG in Colorado. None were bottom dump hoppers. All appeared to be special containers on flat cars. It would certainly not be hauled in open top hoppers and visible.
On occasion I have seen petroleum coke passing through Maricopa from somewhere up the coast in California in GATX open top hoppers with a removable cover. I never have learned the destination. The coal for the Tepco plant in Tucson indeed comes into town from the east. John Timm
Not all petroleum coke is hauled in cars with covers. When I have seen hoppers of petroleum coke coming from the Big West Oil of California refinery they have been regular ATSF, BN, BNSF, and DRGW 3400 to 4000 cubic foot, open top hoppers. Once I saw NDYX 2300 cubic foot, open top hoppers.
The eastbound coal train was going to the Portland Cement plant at Rillito. There’s usually a bimonthly train that runs to and from the plant. Coal trains that come from the east end up at Tucson Electrical Power Plant or Apache. Hope this helps.
Are you sure it is coal?
CSS2004 is correct.
Then could be either Gallup Field or Wasatch Field coal, turning the corner at Colton. It’s happened before. There was a short-term move in the late 1960s from Sufco #1 Mine (loading at Levan, Utah, on the Provo Subdivision). And searching the corners of my memory, I think there was a similar move for a brief period in the early 1980s, too.
RWM
I am guessing that any regular movement of coal to Rillito from the west must be from Utah. I used Mapquest to get a rough estimate of the distances from Gallup to Rillito via Deming and via Colton. The Colton route is almost twice as long. Would they use the latter if the former is available?
Derailment, maintenance window, power repositioning, crew cycles, empty car repositioning, are all reasons to do an ostensibly out-of-circuit move. It’s not uncommon on irregular moves on lightly-used lines to have no crews available on the extra board, so rather than bulletining jobs or increasing the board, it’s cheaper to run the train via a route that does have crews available. Lightly used lines are usually pared to the bone on crews.
We don’t know the reporting marks on the cars, but if these were BNSF cars then a Gallup Field origin looks more likely, and if
How would that work on a move like this involving two railroads? If BNSF decides not to move the train over its Belen to Deming line, it also makes UP haul the train for a considerably longer distance. I know each situation is different, but would it be likely that the contract would call for UP to get a higher percent of the revenue if BNSF decides to send the train the long way?
Unit trains move on a contract basis (which might be a one-time move contract), which specify route. If a reroute or diversion is required, due to unforeseen events such as derailments, washouts, etc., the contract spells out who is responsible for extra cycle time.
RWM
Thanks.
In a situation like this (if the coal comes from NM) where the short route for an irregular train would be on a lightly used line, would it be likely that the railroad company would quote the price to move the coal via the long route with more crews available?
When the customer calls his coal marketing rep and asks for a quote, the railroads will determine which route is most cost-effective for them before they make the quote. Also, they’ll look to see what the value of the service is to the customer, and that goes into the pricing decision too, as well as any competitive options the customer might have. For example, the competition for a cement plant might be natural gas. The railway will look to see how many MCF of natural gas it will take to equal the coal purchase in tons, plus any other cost advantages of the gas, what the likely price of gas will be, and see if they can come in under that price (but not too far under that price) and still turn a profit. If the gas is noticeably cheaper, the railway might go back and ask what the customer needs the coal quote for – to job the gas company, perhaps? But in any event, the railway is not going to create extra cost just for fun. Downward cost pressure on the operating department is tremendous, because the marketing people get paid only if they can make freight move, and upward pricing pressure on the marketing department is tremendous, because the operating people get paid by moving freight at a cost less than the revenue it generates. Somewhere in the middle is a “happy medium” but there’s often not a lot of happiness spread around in the process of finding it.
RWM