At what point would most steam engines pick up coal for the tender at the coaling tower?
Upon entering or exiting the engine servicing facility?
I am specifically interested in the procedure where a steam engine would pass under the coaling tower on the turntable approach track when headed to the round house for servicing.
Would a steamer ever pick up a load of coal in the tender before entering the turntable and round house?
Look forward to learning more about this procedure.
Rich
If I still had a VCR, I could fire up one of the old NYC videos I have (had?) wherein they did detail how the locomotives were serviced. It’s been a few years since I’ve seen it, but as I recall, they loaded coal AFTER getting the fire re-kindled in the roundhouse.
Looking through the Kalmbach “Model Railroaders guide to Engine Servicing Facilities” didn’t yield anything (OK, it was a quick scan of what I thought the relevant sections were). I would assume it was “whichever is easiest” for the railroad.
Engines entered roundhouses for repairs. They weren’t the equivalent of a garage. Most probably dropped their fires. A load of coal makes it real hard to work on a tender stoker screw also. Major roads after service. Shortlines anything.was possible.
From what I have read - Steam engines got a steam cleaning/lube of the running gear, dropped their ashes, and got water/fuel as they arrived at the engine terminal. Most of the time they were not put in the roundhouse, unless they had repair work. They were ‘turned’ and placed on an outbound track with the fire ‘banked’ for quick start-up later. All of this was done at large terminals. Smaller terminals may have worked in a different manner.
Jim
Many Thanks for the info Guys!
Jim, please forgive me, (Steam novice), when you say the fire was Banked, does that mean it was ‘let go to embers’ & not further fed or stoked, until the engine was called upon?
I want to make sure I understand the term properly, & not misconstrue it (like I can, at times)…
Thank you!
Gidday Rich, the following is possibly more than you require, and British, but I would presume that the same principles would be adhered too, no matter where.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fWnjd2eftY
Cheers, the Bear.
‘Banked’ is the term used to describe moving those embers to the back or corner of the firebox, and putting a layer of new coal over it to keep it warm. This way, hours later the fireman can spread out the fire and get started building up a head of steam without going through the process of building a new fire. This keeps the boiler warm, meaning faster heat-up, and less thermal damage to due to constant cold/heat cycles. I have seen this used at a museum railroad for overnight storage of a steam locomotive when it will be operating again the next day. 20 minutes after spreading the fire, they can be moving. A complete shut-down would have required at least 2 hours to build a head or steam.
Jim
Banking assured the fire would still be lit when needed and the boiler water would still have some heat in it. When running the steam going up the stack sucks theheat from the fire through the tubes. When banked a blower or fan would blow air on the coal to heat things up again.
Thanks everyone for your comments.
It sounds like I can load coal coming or going.
Rich
In a large roundhouse, the railroad would have inbound and outbound tracks. Generally the outbound tracks would be where you would have coaling towers and water, so the engines could fill up with both before tackling their train. The inbound tracks would normally have the ash pit where the fire could be dumped and ashes cleaned out.
So yes, you could have an engine at the end of it’s run stop to get coal and water, but I would think it would be relatively rare compared to getting fuel and water on the way from the roundhouse to it’s train.
Steam locomotives needed service every 100 miles or so, which started with (again, according to fuzzy memory of old NYC PR videos) dropping the fires*, and a quick washing (windows, etc). Then take it into the roundhouse for lubrication, check the air/steam connections, check the running gear, check the valves, check the stoker, etc. Moderate repairs could also be made as necessary (swapping tires, stuff noted by the crew who just got off the locomotive, etc). Roundhouses were as much a “garage” as the local Midas/Jiffy Lube/etc – get the locomotive in, change the oil, get it back out on the road.
Heavy repairs wouldn’t necessarily have been done in a roundhouse – that would have more likely required the erecting floor of a well-equipped backshop.
*suppose they could have just dropped the ashes … kinda hard to tell with a ca. 1940 B&W video
When the N&W streamlined their servicing a locomotive would pass through in a straight line. IIRC, there was a coaling tower on one side of the turntable (with adjacent water cranes) and a covered lubritorium on the other. A locomotive off a train would back to the turntable (stopping either for servicing or inspection/lubrication,) get turned ><180 degrees, then run forward (stopping for the rest of the turning procedure) to the ready tracks. Only locos requiring scheduled maintenance or locos with serious problems ever saw the inside of the roundhouse.
Using that system, N&W could `turn’ a loco in as little as ninety minutes.
Unfortunately, no one else ever came up with an equally efficient procedure. On many roads, the last steam on the property was serviced in the same way as the last woodburner…
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
One last thought from me. Every stall in a roundhouse has a smoke collection hood to remove smoke from an engine so some engine repairs were done without dropping the fire completely.
The fire was not dropped or put out even in the roundhouse unless there was to be some type of repair to the boiler. Hostlers and oilers would keep the fires burning to keep the locomotive ready to go out if needed. So to answer your question yes the tender would be topped off going to the house and getting ready to be placed on the ready tracks after being worked on or stored overnight. The job of the house hostler was to keep the fires and steam up in the locos in the house. The ready track hostlers would take care of the locos on the ready tracks until the road crews take charge and sign on.
In some large yards the inbound road crew would drop off the loco on the inbound track and the yard hostler would take the road power to the fuel/ water/ ash dump and if there were no repairs needed or defects listed on the form 19? (not sure if this is the right form) then it would be placed on the ready track and inspected there.
Passenger power was treated a little differently from freight power. Most passenger power was assigned to a specific train/ run and put in the house or wash rack until it was crewed out on its assigned train. A good example would be a steam loco pulled commuter train. Monday through Friday it would pull a couple coaches and sit in the house overnight and weekends until Monday morning. Another would be the named varnish like the Broadway limited. Not any old loco would be assigned to it. Only the newest and most recently shopped locos pulled the named trains.
Then there is reserve power to think about. The fires would be lit and tenders filled ready to go on short notice if needed for backup power for breakdowns or wreck trains. You don’t want to wait 6 hours for the water to boil to pull the hook for a derailment.
Keep the fires burning was not just a saying. It was policy.
Pete
IIRC some engine facilities had connections from a central steam boiler that could be hooked up to the engines to keep steam in the engine so it wouldn’t get cold awaiting it’s next assignment. Not sure if this was in lieu of keeping the fire banked or in addition to it??
I disagree.
If you look at plans of loco facilities, there ARE two tracks, if possible, an inbound and outbound. On the inbound track you will find an ash pit, water, a coaling tower, a sand facility, and a wash rack at the end. When steam locos came in off their run, they dumped their ashes, filled the tender with water and coal, filled the sand domes on the engine, then went to the wash rack and got cleaned up. Then they were turned or went to the roundhouse for repairs or adjustments, and then to the outbound track. Now ask yourself why did they do it in this way. It was so the next crew out on the loco could fire up and leave quickly and not have to waste time.
Some things were accessible to the outbound track, but it was the inbound track that was used for primary service when a loco came in from the road.
Diesel facilities work the same way. Bring the engine in, perform all that is needed and get it ready to send back out, with the least amount of work from the arriving crew.
Elmer, would that still be true if the steamer needed to visit the roundhouse for repairs?
Rich
Stix wrote:
IIRC some engine facilities had connections from a central steam boiler that could be hooked up to the engines to keep steam in the engine so it wouldn’t get cold awaiting it’s next assignment. Not sure if this was in lieu of keeping the fire banked or in addition to it??
This would be in lieu of banking the fire. Both accomplish the same task.
Usually, plant heat was conveyed through overhead lines with – [:^)]ACK! – asbestos lagging wrapped around it. Frequently, this overhead line would emerge from the roundhouse and follow a circle of finger tracks around the TT not covered by the roundhouse, with a drop at each track for the connection.
I suppose plant heat might also be distributed along a straight track to store ready engines, but that takes a lot more money to build because of the longer run of overhead piping before the next spot on the line.
This also brings up another point. People talk in absolutes about roundhouses not being used to store locos, etc, just major repairs. I’m sure this was true in many cases, but local conditions dictated exceptions all the time. Consider that the roundhouse was designed to stuff and access as many locos as possible in a minimum of space. If you look at terminal facilities in cities, often time locos might be cycled through the roundhouse, because there are no other facilities possible in the space allowed. Effectively, the roundhouse did become a home to many locos.
Extra outdoor storage for locos between runs in limited space situations often involved those very same finger tracks with plant steam talked about above. A loco being kept warm wouldn’t need to go into the roundhouse, but would still have to use the TT to get to its spot outside,and then use the TT to depart as assigned to train service.
I agree about the comment that generally units going out on another run would be serviced prior to being sent to the ready line or hooked up to
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