Limitedclear’s post regarding CSX’s collision fatality raises a question I have long thought about but never got around to asking.
You often hear of head-on collisions. But, do trains ever manage to stop in time before the collision? I realize the answer to this is yes, if two trains are traveling at 5 miles per hour and see one another coming for miles away, they will be able to stop.
But, is it common that they are able to stop in time? On straight track in good weather, is stopping in time the rule rather than the exception or vice versa?
Also, when such collisions happen, is it usually the fault of the dispatcher or is the fault of many other factors?
Finally, when the crew jump off the train does it do them much good? I mean, I would think cars and what not would go flying, and they would probably not be able to run after jumping due to injury, seems as though they would have a car land on them.
I wish collisions were not a reality of railroading.
In the one head-on that I know specific details of, everyone on both crews jumped with the exception of one engineer. He was the only one killed. Without going into specifics, this is one I’m always going to believe was signal failure, although it wasn’t ruled as such.
I’ve been lucky. The only collisions I have been involved in have been at grade crossings or trespassers. I will say this, whether you are waiting for a meet or just out on the road heading for an interlocking or other junction you are always on the lookout for the headlight of an oncoming train. Given the long stopping distances required by mainline trains by the time you see the opposing headlight of a train on your track chances of a collision are pretty high. Places where trains stop short of a collision are usually locations with low speed limits or places where restricted speed rules are in effect. Again, to reiterate what Mark said above these circumstances are quite rare.
Again take for example the recent near collision in Syracuse, NY between an Amtrak train and a CSX freight. At the time the CSX train was travelling at fairly low speed as it pulled out of Dewitt Yard. Luckily the two trains were on a long straight stretch when the crew of the CSX 105 car eastbound freight saw the oncoming headlight of the Amtrak train and placed their train in emergency. As their train slowed the crew jumped to safety. The Amtrak engineer, reportedly asleep, awakened and put his train into emergency. The trains stopped approximately 400 feet apart according to the FRA. As you can see this was everyone’s VERY lucky day. The combination of luck, lower speed and the vigilance of the CSX crew saved what might have been a gruesome collision. The Amtrak Engineer was fired after it was determined he passed through 3 stop signals.
LC’s last statement is a big part of the ammunition to my argument why one-man crew’s should not be allowed!!! I read about the unfortuante incident in Florida today and I ask myself the same question…do i ride it out or do I bail off??? My answer would be… Supposedly the new widebodies have a safety cab that is supposed to detatch from the locomotive in a head-on collision and “pop” off. I’ll put it this way… I hope I never have to make that decison.
If something simple but effective could be implemented to release the cars from the locomotives with almost 100 percent certainty a planned derailment would leave the freight lagging behind or stopped, the two sets of locomotives could decelerate and be brought under control more quickly within the remaining closing distance. There would be a mess either way but this way is a miniature disaster in comparison with a cataclysmic head on collision involving hundreds of cars.
That would never work. You need to think about the physics. Think of the momentum of even one carload of freight. The average car these days is at least 263,000 lbs. Even if you cut the train loose from the locomotives all that will happen is the train will continue moving forward and slam into the rear of the decelerating locomotives causing a major derailment. There are a number of other reasons your idea won’t work, but even if it did the above scenario would be the result…
The last train collision I went to was when a Southbound UP rearended a stopped UP November,(can’t remeber year, maybe 1998? South of Alton, IA .
The conductor jumped (and died of his injuries), The engineer laid on the floor and rode it out (and survived) and a driver of a UP crew pickup van had a derailed tanker car roll over his van like a rolling pin. Needless to say the van was 18" high when accident ended.
I may be wrong on this, but I believe the southbound travelling UP failed to take a siding if I remeber correctly.[xx(][V]
Are you looking at the separtion from locomtives from cars as the cars still moving true to the rails? I meant to reiterate this so called planned derailment and furter it by saying something relatively inexpensive and simple could be used to derail the freight cars once uncoupled from the locomotives. All anyone has to do is focus on the wheels. Some sort of drop and slightly ramped swing under chock device stretching the track gauge could bring a fast end to even the heaviest of loads.
There was a head on a few years ago in Knox, Indiana on the NS (NKP Chicago - Ft Wayne line). I dont remember when, but it was probably around 1995.
I think either 3 or 4 crew members died. It occurred around 6am, I believe and a crew fell asleep. One crew contained a student, who was operating a train.
As a result, the NS soon after began having the crews begin calling signals.
A couple of questions…how would I find the investigation results of the accident?
Does the calling of signals help? As many of you know, I listen to my scanners (plural, stratically located in the house) constantly. Even when not paying 100% attention, I seem to know where the trains are. My girlfriend is amazed that I know where NS 177 is, but cant remember the anniversary of our first date, but that is a topic for another web forum. Seriously, do you crewmen find the calling of signals help?
I am amazed at how often I hear a crew call a wrong location, then quickly come back with the corrected location. That clues me in they are approaching that dangerous state of fatigue.
Mark, are you scheduled to be at DePaul next month? Might take that seminar in.
M.W,
Thank you for pointing out the UP wreck. I knew I was unclear on all of the surrounding events. I’ll never forget that night. I was working on patrol shift that night. At the moment of collision I was parked talking to another deputy near a small town about 8 miles west. Not only could I hear the collision which sounded like dynanmite being detonated, a ball of fire was visible for about 3 seconds. I have about 5 rolls of photos. I should try find them, scan them, and send them to you sometime.
Something a guy never forgets[:(!]
And by the way, What does TWC and DTC stand for? I have heard the terms used but don’t really know the differences. And how does one tell one type from another. Reason why I ask is I wonder which type the BNSF line between Sioux City, iA and Minnesota is.
When the CNW went to radio-authorized track authorizations, they used DTC. There were six blocks between KO (near Lake Forest, Il) and St. Francis, WI.
The nice thing about DTC was the signs that Mark mentioned; just in case you spaced out a bit, seeing the block sign reminded you about your authority (or lack thereof). The bad thing about DTC was the lack of flexibility.
Trains don’t stop on a dime, even if you could invent a device that would derail them. Your idea simply won’t work. Think about the force vectors in a 10,000 ton freight train moving 50 miles per hour in a straight line. The basic physics is against you.