[I] Ok, I know that building a model RR is a lot of work and all that because I’ve been there, done that a number of times over the years. Being something of a masochist, my twisted brain is looking at my newly constructed bench work and view dividers and saying “Just think of all the extra main line you could have if you double decked this”. If that isn’t crazy enough, I’m also thinking of using N scale rolling stock, buildings etc. up high and in the distance to force the depth perception.
Ok, so I am crazy but given that for me the most important part of Model RR is the scenery through which my trains roll it all makes some sort of goofy sense to me.
The main concern of a multi level layout is how to get from one level to another. Some use a helix, some use a no-lix, some use a train elevator, some use the five finger crane. A helix takes up a lot of room or floor space, a no-lix runs round the perimeter of the room making access to the room an obstacle to over come, a train elevator is fun to construct, the five finger crane gets old.
Other concerns are lighting. The upper level lighting is easy. The lower level lighting is hung under the upper level. The lower level support is easy, upper level can be fun to design while not interfering with the lower level and access there of.
From the perspective of a visitor or operator on double deck layouts, I register a vote on the negative side. I am a tall man and the lower level is as a rule both nearly unviewable and literally inoperable (is that a word?).
Multi-level layouts do offer ‘more mainline miles’, but as with most things, there is a ‘rub’. Here are some things to consider:
What will be the height of each level? One has to optimize the levels for viewing and operation. Also, the height of the operators/viewers is more critical here.
How are you going to get from the lower level to the upper level? The helix does take a lot of room, and you wind up with a very long ‘gap’ between the last town on the lower level and the first town out of the helix on the upper level - Good planning is required here.
Lower level lighting can get rather expensive if one is using LED strips or those compact kitchen units for under the cabinets.
My present layout is ‘single level’ and has about an 88’ mainline. It was built starting in 1987 and has served me well. That said, I am considering building an all new layout that will have 120’ of visible mainline with staging on a lower level. A 4.5 turn 30/32.5"" radius helix will drop the mainline from a 52" level to a 36" level where the visible staging will be. I have been involved in 2 clubs that have built a helix, and I know the issues with construction and operation of them. There will be about 75’ of double track helix to negotiate before one hits the staging tracks. And another 25’ of 2% grade out the other side of the staging before I hit ‘on-stage’ again. The helix will be about a continuous 2% grade(plus a 1% compensation for the curvature). I would not build a helix in HO with anything under 30" radius curves. One’s construction skills needs to be ‘top notch’ when doing multi-level layouts, and be prepared to spend lots of money!
As already stated as to the problems of the 2 levels, If you have the space to build the “mushroom” design like Joe Fugates, I believe this is the best method of having the varying levels. Of coarse you do need the layout room width wide enough to accomplish that mushroom divider.
While a lot suggest having the Upper Level at this height - It is very hard to do intense switching at this level (as I am 6-1).
Most of my operators are shorter than that and they could not even handle any switching at all!
I built a fold out step that is attached to the layout and all one has to do is fold it down and now the shorter operators are standing with the 60" level at a comfortable height of 51".
Now everyone is happy!
With the lower level (34") this is a yard area - with NO layout above it.
It is 30 to 36" wide and with it at this height (34") most every operator can (if needed) lean over the edge of the benchwork and reach to the back of the YARD tracks to uncouple their trains! Only if they NEED to!
It took a little experimenting to figure out the Lower Level height that works for most everyone but it was fairly easy to do - just measure your operators from the floor to their Hips and you have the height of your lowest level that can easily be reached into.
The fold down steps set your Operators height for the Upper levels!
I have had a three level since early 1980’s. Top deck and middle deck connected with a helix, middle deck and bottom deck connected with a long, hidden grade. top deck holds Oklahoma City and points east to Guthrie. Then the helix takes the mainline to the middle deck. There is also a staging yard off the top deck for Arkansas City (my railroad is ATSF in 1989). Middle deck holds the Enid branch from Guthrie to Enid and the long grade holds the line west of Enid to Kiowa and Waynoka. Waynoka is visible staging. The BN line from Tulsa (staging) to Avard and Waynoka is also included. BN line becomes visible at Enid (both ATSF and BN).
Has worked fine for me, but took a lot of fine tuning in the early days. A few things I had to fine tune, but would do it all over again. You can contact me with questions.
I too do the multi deck thing, but after several experiments, I adopted some standards different from many of the common recomendations for multi deck layouts.
My upper level is 56" off the floor - and contains vertually no switching. It is set back from the lower deck below by 10 to 12 inches - so it only “covers” about 2/3’s of the lower decks depth in most places.
My lower deck is designed to be viewed fro ma chair for best scenic effect - you know the rolling office kind. The lower deck is only 32" to 34" off the floor. In some places it is as deep as 4’, but in most places it is 3’ or less. The lower deck contains all the yards, industrial areas, engine terminal, etc.
Even though some areas of the lower deck are 4’ deep, all visable trackage is within about 30" of the front of the layout.
The low hight of the lower deck is great for when you need to reach into the layout, the chair viewing is great as well in my opinion. And it is a good hight for children to view things as well.
The two decks are connected by a 4 track helix, since it is a double track continious main line. The helix is big, 36" minimum radius, 1.8% steepest grade.
Both levels are basicly level with only small changes in track elevations. The whole transition is done in the helex.
The layout is built in sections to allow it to be moved.
Forced Perspective: This is the proper term, I believe, in describing use of anything N Scale in an HO layout background. My old HO modular club did this, using N Scale farm buildings and cows in pasture land behind our main and HO cows in foreground, with a cow tunnel running under main track [ wasvery prototypical here in NH! ] . It worked out Great! We even had a Neat N Scale Webelos Campout with tents & flagpole, set up on left hand background corner hillside [ had worked with Webelos Scouts 6 years and couldn’t resist! ]. My two cents…Old Tom aka papasmurf in NH
If you do decide on double decking your layout, you will want to be very careful about viewing angles and lighting, given your layout preferences. A mockup with plywood shelves would be a good starting point.
Double decking tends to given about a 50% increase in usable area, not the 100% expected, due to space neeed to get from one elevation to another and the limits on shelf depths to accommodate viewing angles.
Fred makes some great points here - that is why after serval experiments, I can up with the guidlines I use, explained in my first post. The upper deck is almost strictly “trains rolling through the country side”, the upper level is 18" to 24" deep in most places and the viewing angle is very much straight on the side for most people.
The lower level has that “arial view” thing when viewed standing, and that is not bad with the upper deck set back some, and the 24" height difference from upper to lower. Seated in a chair, the viewing angle of the lower is similar to the upper.
And, the mainline run is long, but there is some lost pace, helix, wider isles, etc.
all these comments are great. I myself have a 9 by 11 foot room in which there are 4 levels. Here is what I found out:
My layout has 12 inches between the rails from one level to another. This is not enough. From my experience it has to be a minimum of 18 inches. Right now I can not place buildings such as Walthers Grain elevator on the lower level. It does not fit.
-The helix is 30 inch radius. This makes the grade slightly above 2 percent. Next helix will be 36 inch radius, the bigger the better.
-The upper level is 12 inches wide, middle level 18 inches wide and the lower level 24 inches. This works quite well
-The lowest level is staging and it was installed last. That was a mistake, Next time the lowest level will be build first.
-For lighting between the level I used the LED rope lights. Bought them from Wallmart on christmas stock clear out.
-It takes quite a bit of fine tuning to have the trains run without issues.
If you have any questions please feel free to contact.
If you are planning on having switching operations on a multi-level layout (except maybe a mushroom type), you need to design it so that yards and industries are not on top of each other. The railroad may have two levels, but the operators only have one, and tempers are tested when two are trying to work in the same space.
Another logistic: What will you place under the lowest layout level?
For example, most cabinets, work desks, book cases, etc. to be pulled-out from under the lower level are apx. 30" high + at least 6" more for “zero-elevation” of the lower layout level.
Now add distance up to the upper level (say 18") zero elevation. This illustration makes the lower level 36" and the upper level 54". Again, only a starting point.
Next measure your “eye level comfort height” for the upper level.
Thus, it doesn’t hurt to make adjustments from the bottom-up (lower level), and the top-down (upper level).
Thanks one and all for all your advice. I’ve decided to sort of go halfway with the double decking. Base level is 45 inches with the second deck an additional 18 inches. Worked out the lighting and the helix to elevate to 2nd level.
Multi-deck was the only way for me, multi-railroad each level can act as an independent layout with loops but will get up or down, most railroads limited to 2 different levels with interchanges.
But I should be able to run 1 train all the way from low to top and back down for some leisure train running.