The image is large… i know…
Anyway its based upon actual track plans and steel mill diagrams… so the critique i am hoping you guys will give will help with functionality improvements and the like…
so the era is spring 1993 before the P&LE would be incoporated into CSX…
thanks guys!
The first thing I see is that you’re going to have some serious reach issues in that yard.
phillip, the yard is gonna be accessable from both sides (the middle of the layout and in front of the stairs) as the basement has no walls.
Ahhh, OK.
Can I ask why the crossover by the electric plant (at the 20’ mark on the left) is so short? Was that how the prototype did it or something?
good question 
i don’t know…
guess when i was designing it i wanted to give access to the rolling mill from the main headed to newell and settled for the paired crossover, but looking at it now, the single crossover by the coke quencher takes care of that crossing maneuver… i guess the question is:would it be best to simply eliminate the bottom crossover in the pair or separate the distance between the pair?
this is greatly condensened from the prototype, but it had crossovers flying everwhere… let me see if i can get that image up here
Personally, I’d seperate them a bit as you could then use it as a runaround for switching or a passing siding. Either way, you win! Increased flexability!
here are the steel mill plans. a maze of track for sure… the switcher operators must have had maps and charts to keep track of how to get from place to place! [:)]
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j16/callmemickey/00003a.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j16/callmemickey/00004a.jpg
Piece of cake! [%-)]
I noticed that there is a turnback loop by the blast furnace. That may be something worth incorporating. Other then that, you’re right, it’s a spagetti bowl! You’d have $1000 bucks tied up in turnouts if you tried to replicate that, let alone the room needed!
On the right hand side of the plan, you have a crossover from the outside track to the inside track just prior to entering the yard. This creates a sharp S turn when entering the yard from the outside track. It is almost identical to the trackwork on my yard and it has been a major source of derailments and I am using #6 turnouts. I am strongly considering replacing that crossover with a curved turnout around the bend from the yard. Before doing that, I am going to fiddle with the turnout to see if there is a mechanical problem with that but if I had to do it over again, I would move the crossover to the yard farther up the line and eliminate the S-turn. On your plan, as the outside track snakes its way toward the yard, it bends left than back to the right before reaching the crossover. If you made that bend to the left a turnout, you could make almost a straight shot into the yard. Usually the prototypes avoid using the curved part of the turnout for the mainline but I have found in the modeling world, it isn’t a problem and is the lesser of two evils.
In looking at your yard, one question I would have is what size trains are you looking to run? A layout of this size should be able to run 6-8 ft. trains at least. I mention this because if you look at the yard tracks at the apex of the ladders, they are pretty short: ~4ft if I am looking at this correctly. You won’t be able to makeup full size trains on these tracks and so they are potentially wasted (1 could be used for a caboose track). Anyway, I would consider stub ending 2 or 3 of them so you could make them a couple of feet longer.
I would also consider adding more staging tracks, particularly in the lower right. Since this is a point-to-point, you’ll want lots of staging at either end to keep trains running.
I’d like to second the idea of stagging. It looks as if you will have plenty of on layout operation but without stagging it may may it hard to run enouth trains to make it interesting. Otherwise the plan looks good (with the above suggestions already posted)
jecorbett,
thanks for the comments about that entrance to the yard… i definitely would not be too thrilled if an s-curve like you described caused me derailling problems everytime i brought a train into the yard! i might want to straighten out the kink at the enterance and just have them run straight into that turnout… something to consider for sure
whitman,
stub-ending 2 of the tracks is a possibility… ill have to look over the prototype maps some and see what they did… i know the real deal is 3-4 tracks wider so they might not have used stub ends at all… will need to make a judgement call on if i want to change the look of the yard…
and good comments with the idea about staging… the basement continues on to the right of whats shown on the plan and the eventual idea is to expand past the mill “to pittsburgh” using the other half of the basement… but its way too early to plan that… so i really don’t want to add too much in the way of staging beyond the mill… but i could definitely curve up some staging south beyond the scrap yard…
by adding staging in just the one direction should allow me to operate several kinds of trains:
the question is… how long of staging should be sufficient to serve as staging for 6-8 foot trains? 8 feet? or would i need 10-12 feet of staging?
The actual staging tracks would only need to be eight feet long (some people do put back to back trains on the same track; this would economize on turnouts but would eat up a lot of space). You then need to add to this the length of throat. For four staging tracks you would need three turnouts which would use about 4ft of length so 12ft total would be about right.
thats a do-able amount for staging i’d think… thanks!
Have you considered incorporating the stub ended yard the P&LE used to feed cars into the W-P mill? It would add a full time job for an operator pulling cars out and pushing them in. How about the Monesen Southwestern for interchange? Just a couple of ideas for you from another P&LE fan.
you need to add butler, thorn creek, and a B&LE branch
Ha, I don’t visit this forum for like two years and I wander back to immediately find a mention of two place names I am intimately familiar with and my pseudo-prototype. Funny how that works out.
jvpage… a good idea with the stub end yard, would be more fun for a full time operator as opposed to just working from what i have now… where exactly was the yard located, at the northern end of the mill???
i can definitely incorporate the monessen southwestern… it might be difficult due to the complete lack of products for it… i only have one photo of a switcher… 
Nice trackplan.
There are a few thing I’d like to bring up, however
What if the purpose of that short siding next to the Fayette city Coal mine? It’s too short to be used for much.
Why are the loco shops located “in the middle of nowhere” They should be in the yard, posibly near the roundhouse.
What appears to be your switch lead is curvy. I would highly recommend straightnening it out. A curve at the very end is OK, but S curves like that are just asking for derailemnts every time you back up.
I have seen the error of my ways and have decided to exude nothing but a positive attitute in all of my future replies and to avoid responding to posts which require any kind of intelligence.
P & LE RR; your track plan is absolutely fantastic and borders on the very edge of genius. Truly, this is one of the greatest track plans I have encountered in my forty-four years of model railroading; indeed, for a fleeting moment I thought for sure that you were John Armstrong reincarnated. Are you John Armstrong reincarnated??? If not than I will venture that you will become the John Armstrong of the 21st Century.
I can hardly wait until you post your first photographs as this plan transposes itself from planning to construction!!!
pcarell; don’t you think that this is, indeed, a fantastic track plan???
