Completely new and have a few questions.

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

Hey everyone, let me start by saying that I am as new as it comes to model trains, but have always wanted to get into it, I have just never found the time. I spent the past weekend reading everything I could find but I have a list of questions I haven’t been able to answer. This forum was one place I read quite a bit from and it seemed like there were a lot of people who were willing to help others, so I thought I would start here. I apologize if I ask a question I should have found elsewhere, and I appreciate any answers I do get.

  1. First what I am wanting to do: I don’t have a ton of space; I will probably end up using the guest room or garage depending on how big it really gets. As of right now I am not wanting to set up a full blown model set with buildings, scenery, etc. At one point I will probably get there, but for now I am interested in a set I can practice with, try different layouts, different build ideas, etc. I would like to get 2-4 locomotives and just enjoy running the trains for now.
  2. From the limited space I am leaning towards N-scale. From the research I did I am leaning towards Kato locomotives and Kato track. My question is what is the best way to jump into this. I won’t have fun with one loco and a simply oval, that will get boring fast. But in order to do what I want it would take $1000 (which I really don’t have to spend). I know I could just get a couple of cheaper sets (bachmann?) but is that the best long term idea in case I really do like this hobby.
  3. Is looking for used track and and rolling stock smart? It seems like it would be a good way to get started without the huge initial upfront cost.
  4. I think that I would really like using DCC, but is it necessary for what I am wanting to do, or just one of those cool things that cost a lot of money? I want to start out with atleast 2 locomotives and 10-15 rolling stock, I am no
2

Welcome, welcome, welcome. I am in HO so I am not of much help, BUT:

If you are in a big city, there may be flea markets to get started. If there is a NMRA Division, they will have people and they ussually have stuff to start with. We have a N scale club here that would love to help you get started. You may have the same. We just had a Christmas Auction and there was a bunch of N scale stuff that went for next to nothing.

I would start,( I did once) with either a 4 x 8 table or a 2 x 8 shelf, and design a simple track plan, lay some track and get started. I would certainly start with DCC. Then run some trains, build some buildings, experment with some scenery and see what you really like to do. I am a scenery guy so that is what my layout is about. In the 5 years it has grown and changed a lot so don’t worry about getting it right the first time. Just build something and have fun.

About equipment, get some less expensive stuff to start. Just make sure it runs. You can get what you like when you know what that is.

If you can find a club or a Division or a good local hobby shop, that will give you access to the people who can help.

Also, this forum was almost as useful as the Division for me.

Have fun, but beware, trains can be addicting.

Art

3

Well, that’s quite a list of concerns but I’ll get the ball rolling.

HO vs. N - Although I model N, HO might be a better choice if you’re just starting out. I migrated to N after having an HO layout for many years. There is a greater availability across the board in HO, HO is slightly more reliable (IMO), and working in N can be tedious. My current layout is in a 9x13 room, but the first section was 30" x 102".

I was going through “102 Realistic Track Plans” (2009) last night looking for some info, and there were several smaller layouts that could easily be built for $500. In fact, some layouts were lableed as to cost.

DCC is nice, but not a requirement by any means. Using block control you can easily separate switching duties from a train that just goes round 'n round and drop/picks up cars.

Used track is not such a good idea, IMO. Also consider flex-track rather than Kato. Kato is great stuff but will cost a bit more. If you go with flex, use code 80 rather than 55 for a first effort.

I’d go with a relatively inexpensive set on a 3x5 layout (either scale) to see if your comfortable with the concept…

I wouldn’t lock myself into one brand of loco. Every manufacturer makes great locos, and they all built some real dogs as well. On a small starting layout don’t make the mistake of buying a Challenger and expect it to negotiate 10" curves. Start with a Consolidation or 4 axle diesel.

Just some thoughts, I’m sure others will chime in. My opinions are worth just what you paid for them.

4

I wouldn’t hesitate to start in N scale. Availability will never match HO, but it is really pretty good, and getting better every day.

I would read about the Diitrax Zephyr and the NCE PowerCab, pick one, and go. You can do what you want with DC, but it will be easier, more fun, and not much more expensive (maybe less, in the long run), to just start with DCC.

Atlas and Kato make good locos. There are other good ones, but to start I would keep it simple. I would not get a cheap set.

Track, I think Atlas would be considerably cheaper, and still very good. Kato is bulletproof, but is really a different type of animal.

The Kalmbach N scale beginner book (at least in its previous form) had a small project sort of layout that would help you get your feet wet in lots of areas of the hobby.

5

I train in HO and work a decent size layout in my smaller 2 car garage but if you want model N scale or HO I would start with 4x8 sheet of plywood that sits on an old table or make 2x4 legs. build simple loop with a siding or two and get a decent middle line train set or middle line engine and some rolling stock… you want something that can be upgraded to DCC if you decide to stick with it and want to go bigger… This will 1) see if MRRing is for you. you might find it boring or might love it a lot and 2) will give something to practice with you get familar with how things work and give you a chance to practice on scenery.

Dc or DCC, starting out I would go with DC until you know if MRR is for you but if you want to grow your fleet and make a more complex layout, go DCC… it will make running more realistic and you can get a decent starter DCC set for under $200 and the DCC chips to upgrade your locos are often $20 or less.

I find that the trains in MRR is small part of a bigger hobby… it is learning wiring, learning about the real life locos, learning how industries work with railroads, building buildings and industries, turing a sheet of plywood into a farm or a forest. What you can get out of is almost endless.

6

Great orientation to a start in a new hobby! I would continue to read, to establish a specific interest so that my purchases were few and specific, and in the meantime I would start to play with track and turnouts to find out what type of railroading I enjoy. Maybe turnouts are only a means to an end, or perhaps they are critical to your passion for switching and industrial operations. Only one way to find out…lay track on a smallish length of well-supported plywood and doodle out some plans, or copy some.

Yes, the hobby can really soak up the discretionary income, and quickly if one doesn’t establish a fairly narrow way ahead. If N appeals to you for sensible reasons, then it is a sensible choice. Many opt for it. If a simple oval is already something you know you must avoid, what can you fit in N scale in the space you have configured the way it must practically be? On shelves, ovals are moot. Realistically, switching and line movements are about all you’ll be able to accomplish. It just gets worse as the scale grows. But, in N, a 180 degree turn is going to need a shelf about 30" deep, and that’s a deep reach for many of us. It kinds looks me me like a bunch of us would urge you to consider eit

7

I have to admit I wasn’t expecting so many detailed replys so quickly, thank you very much for that. Reading through the replies I get the sense that a lot of it may be hands on learning so my method of trying to pick the right thing the first time without ever touching any of it may be unrealistic. I like the idea of going to a Flea Market or a NMRA Club, I live in the Tampa area so I will have to look around and see what is available.

Track is something I am most concerned about from what I have read. While it is easy (relatively) to swap loco’s or rolling stock, it would be more difficult to change track correct? Once you start with something and have a lot of it doesn’t it make sense to always use the same? I am not sure of the difference between kato track and atlas, but if the cost difference is significant without a huge upgrade in quality then I should be able to save right there.

I was wondering what you guys thought about buying things used, especially from eBay since that is the only place I have found. I see people put up a train collection but I have no idea if it would be a wise decision to go that way or not. I am not opposed to buy used, I would just hate to get something that doesn’t work anymore or takes a lot of knowledge to make work correctly. Is there any recommendations for buying used?

Again thank you for everyone’s suggestions, it is incredible to know that a hobby has a community this involved with helping people out. Other hobbies that I have picked up in the past haven’t necessarily been that way.

8

Josh, if you can hold off a bit, I’d recommend attending the World’s Greatest Hobby on Tour Show that is coming to Tampa March 19th and 20th. You’ll get the opportunity to see and talk with many of the model railroad manufacturers in person. There will also be a good many vendors selling items and a number of operating layouts. I think it’s a good way to see a little of everything in one place. About five or six of them are held each year in different locations. Each show is slightly different since some of the exhibitors attend the shows closest to them. I’ve been to a number of them and have enjoyed every one.

Some folks might feel otherwise if they’re more advanced, but these shows are aimed at beginners so I think you’ll find it helpful. Also, some folks get these shows confused with flea market type shows. There are entirely different. You can find out a good but about them by looking at their web site.

http://www.wghshow.com/

Jim

9

Hi and [#welcome]!

First off, I recommend you do a LOT OF READING. Kalmback {our forum hosts} has magazines and books galore on the subject form Model Railroader Magazine. GO to the library and see if they have any. GO to a LHS {Local Hobby Shop} and buy some. Shop here online under the black tool bar above headings of “Our Magazine” and “shop” and make use of the gray toolbar at the very top under “resources” for train shows and the like and the “shop” button.

First bullet- I don’t have a lot of space either. I have a 3.5 foot x 5.1 foot HO layout in a 6.5 foot by 8foot space. I have a center oval that has a 4 spur mini yard and a 2 spur enigne facility inthe center of it, and that oval is interconnected to the outer larger oval by switches. I can consist a train {put one together} in the yard, and send that train out the outer rails, then consist another train in the yard and run it on the inner oval. I can switch trains from one oval to the other {carefully so I don’t run into the other}. Then I can deconsist one train in the yard. put away the engine in the engine house, then deconsist the other train and park the engine in the engine house and call it a day. I can run two locos and run them in opposite directions if I want. {more on that later and DCC allowing me to do so}

I could have had a larger empire had I gone with N scale, and did have Nscale form my teen years, but always wanted HO so I built one. YOu don’t have to have a lot of space to have a good layout with lots of fun attached to it…

**Second bullet-**You’re going to spend some money, now or later. You can start with one oval and a Kato Nscale set now, and expand later. They do make track expansion sets you can buy to add to a basic oval. Altals has some premade track sets available in differnet sizes.Aome are reasonable and some are expensive, but you WILL spend money one way or the other to get a track plan you want. For example here for Atla

10

Welcome to that finest of hobbies, model railroading.

First, unless your garage is heated and air conditioned, don’t start there.

Second, a 4x8 sheet of plywood on a simple frame with legs is a good start. That should fit into a spare bedroom with access on both sides and one end. In a pinch you can go down to 3 1/2 by 6.

Scale is a tricky issue because folks tend to feel locked in after they have bought some stuff. But I would consider HO. A lot of folks get a lot of enjoyment out of building rolling stock and buildings. There are a number of HO kit lines you can experiment with such as Accurail and some Atlas kits that are relatively inexpensive. HO also tends to be more widely available, more discounted, and has a number of economy lines, but be careful there are a number of junk lines as well. A good hobby shop is a real asset. Stuff sold at craft stores, discount stores like Big Lots, Costco, etc. tends to be poor quality. No matter what scale you start with, don’t be afraid to change after a couple of years. You’ll better understand what you want out of this hobby by then.

Your first train should be a small diesel and a few cars - i.e. 4 or 5. Of course if a steam locomotive is a big part of the appeal of the hobby, then get one of those - they just cost a little more.

Your second train should be a one car passenger unit such as an RDC or Doodlebug. This is cheaper and can use short sidings.

Have some spurs where you can drop off and pick up cars.

As others have noted reading up on the hobby is a good start. Using one of Kalmbach’s beginners books can be a good start. I would also recommend Track Planning for Realistic Operation by John Armstrong.

No matter how you start, $500 will just get your feet wet. If you can’t get allocate a monthly sum in at least the $25 to $50 range you’ll take too long to get going ($50 is better for at le

11

So, after doing yet more reading and paying attention to everyone’s replys, here is where I am at.

  1. I am going to order Atlas Code 80 track from wholesaletrains, It may be crazy but I might just get a box of 100 straight sections and 100 curved sections and make it up as I go (for some reason I think that will be fun)
  2. I am going to order two loco’s, probably kato or atlas I think
  3. I am going to bite the buller and buy a DCC, digitrax seems to get pretty good reviews
  4. I will then pick and choose rolling stock, cheaper at first and go from there
  5. I am going for a 25-50 dollar a month budget to purchase new items
  6. I am going to get a nice piece of 4x8 plywood, still not sure where to set up ( I considered going with HO because 4x8 seems like a lot, but part of what excites me about this is building a really complex track layout and making it all work)
  7. Gotta try and stay under $500 or I may end up on the couch

Again I can’t thank everyone for their help, I already have a couple more questions…

  1. What in the world is a rail joiner, so I need them or can I just hook up the track as I buy it and the rail joiners are for long term installations?
  2. I see people talking about isolating track sections, something I need to worry about?
  3. Are installing DCC boards on loco’s easy enough that I won’t break anything?
  4. I see remote turnouts with different numbers on them, any thing I need to know about that? How are the turnouts controlled, do I need a whole seperate controller for those?

I know I am asking questions I can answer by sitting down and reading, but the little kid in me has come out and I want to get something in the house and start playing around, and then once I see some of this stuff in action I promise I will start reading more and learning from there. Thanks again everyone.

12

Josh, one of the first things you’ll learn in the hobby is to, as others have so aptly put it, READ A LOT! This hobby is sooooo much bigger than most new people realize.

Do you have a local TRAIN hobby shop in the Tampa/St. Pete area? If so, go there and try to get a feel for the differences in HO and N. If you have good eyesight, steady hands and very limited space… N scale may be the way to go. But if you think they’re just too small and you like the size of HO better then that’s the way I would go. Also if one day you decide you’d like to have a sound equipped engine or two most would agree HO sound is the better choice.

In my humble opinion I would stay away from used track, especially if you’re inexperienced. It can be far more trouble than its worth. You should be ok with used rolling stock as minor defects can usually be corrected fairly easily.

The hardest thing in this hobby for someone just getting into it is to go slowly, to think through what scale you want, what railroad you’d like to model (if any), what time frame… modern or transition period or maybe even earlier. Yes, you can get the sheet of plywood and start running some trains for now. But take your time and do your research before starting to build a larger layout. It can get expensive, but it’s even more expensive to change your mind farther down the road and have to start in another scale, ripping out track etc.

Most everyone on this forum, or any other forum, might disagree on what scale, dcc or dc, garage or spare room etc. But I’ll bet we all agree on one thing. Read a lot. Research and develop a plan.

In the meantime, set up the 4x8, run some trains and have fun! Like I said, it’s a huge hobby and one that can last a lifetime.

Jarell

13

Sounds like you are formulating a plan. I would also go with DCC from the start, especially for a small layout just so you can have more operating options than you can get out of dc and block control. If the layout wiring is done correctly with proper sized buss wires and such, upgrading to a different DCC system is literally as easy as unhooking and rehooking 4 wires. There’s nothing wrong with the Digitrax systems but every system is different, some may fit your style better than others. See if you can try a couple different systems before you buy.

Personally I see no problem with used track, especially if one can inspect it before hand. I wouldn’t spring for track that comes with roadbed at this time, basic sectional track would probably work better and is cheaper. I would stick with sectional for right now, while it does limit your design freedom it also helps limit the impossibilities that can come up with flex track.

N scale is fine but so is HO. Choice is yours. I’m kind of at a point where I wish I had started in N but after nearly 30 yr in HO it’s too late to change.

One can spend months planning and designing a “perfect” layout but nothing beats just playing with track to see what works and what doesn’t. Let’s face it, most of us started with a trainset and sheet of plywood (or just the floor).

14

Oy! whew! You really should READ and get some track plan books!

Bullet# 1- A rail joiner IS A MUST have. It joins the rails together and helps to carry your electrical continuity. Your Atlas track sHOULd come with them, but if not you NEED them separately or if you loose some {they are small} They are available here for code 80:

http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?ID=20012933

You might also want to pick up some of these electrified rail joiners for feeder wires:

http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?ID=20012096

Also with your curved sections, opt for at least http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?ID=200452737 it is a bigger radius curve. It may come in handy for bi

15

[#welcome] Josh,

I admire your intention to read and think and then experiment for a while. In this way are successful model railroaders born.

That said, it sounds like you’re ready to run out and buy. You may be a little premature.

Ask yourself a few questions first. Have you decided, come that Netherworld or High Water, that you’re going to be a model railroader? If so, it probably won’t hurt you to lay in an initial supply of stuff and start experimenting. If you’re not sure, however, spend some more time experiencing the hobby before you plunk down your hard-earned cash. Go to a few train shows, attend a few club meetings (different clubs, because they all operate differently, and you may not like the style of the first one you try).

Above all, DO NOT go cheap. Get good stuff. Cheap stuff doesn’t work very well, and will turn you off to the hobby as surely as your name is Josh. Before you buy ANYTHING however, have a plan in your head, or better still, on a piece of paper. Don’t run off and buy bulk packs of track and then see what you can make, because you’ll end up throwing away a lot of money on track you don’t need. I’m on a limited budget mayself, but I stick $25 out of every paycheck into a separate bank account, and I maintain a list of the acquisitions I want to make and the best price I can find. When I’ve saved enough money, it’s time to go shopping (or, usually, order off of the Internet).

On the DCC question, I would definitely do it. It’s really not that expensive, if you go with a starter system, and all of the major brands (Digitrax, Lenz, MRC, and NCE) are fine – it’s a matter of features and preference. They’re all expandable – some more easily than others – so they can grow with you. Installing some decoders is a plug and play operation, and you can easily handle that. For soldering, though, I can melt high carbon cold rolled steel with a soldering iro

16

I missed one comment before.

All turnouts on your layout will be operated by something: a remotely-located electrical switch, an RC or IR controller, your DCC system, a locally (that is, on the turnout) electrical switch, or a manually operated switch on the turnout. I guess we could add “your fingers” to that list, as it is possible to buy turnouts without a throwbar on them. In the case of the first three, yes, you will need some kind of controller or decoder to operate them, and these can run upwards of $20 each.

If you’re getting an Atlas Remote Switch (or turnout), it comes with a twin coil machine that uses a burst of electricity to switch the points. Not prototypical, but it works. Last I checked, the Remote switch comes with the remote button and wires, too. A more prototypical (but more expensive) solution is an under-the-layout slow motion machine, with or without a decoder for DCC operation.

The numbers you see with the turnouts are expressing the ratio of the distance run to the distance of divergence. Simply put, the higher the number, the more gentle the turnout. In general, you want to use the highest number that fits in the available space, because sharper turns don’t work well for longer cars / locomotives.