After re-reading the article about the fancy HO display in germany, it is mentioned that the trains are computer controlled, right?
This got me to thinking, as someone who is more of a lone-wolf operator, is there a way to use computers combined with DCC, route scheduling, and block detection to create automated train schedules and routes…IE, I want to operate my layout, however, no one is around or I only have an hour (lunch break, etc) to do an operating session, so I turn on my computer, select a time schedule, and poof…all the main-line trains start moving across the layout according to that schedule while I manually operate a local freight or pick a through train to run.
Now I realize there are limitations to this idea, however i’m looking for the basics, main-line operation: the hot through trains running from one off layout staging area across the layout to the other staging area with limited switch operation - changing mainline tracks to pass other trains - no heavy or local freight switching.
Does such a thing/program already exist for us home operators/consumers? or am I dreaming of the next logical step for DCC and PCs?
~Mike
and investigate the ‘panelpro’ suite. - It’s a great start point, and if you’re au-fait with Java you can write your own scripts to do whatever your heart desires!
It’s definitely doable, and not that difficult if you’re somewhat computer literate. (It’s not “easy” or something for a beginner either).
I had my previous layout completely computerized using a Lenz DCC system, my PC and JMRI. With routes, detection, etc., and a few scripts, you could truly “turn it on” and it would run through its paces. You could also run it manually “by wire” sitting at the computer and using it like a high-tech CTC system, viewing train progress, setting turnouts, operating trains, etc.
On the new layout, I am foregoing that. I’ll still be DCC, of course, but will run with wireless handheld throttles in ‘walkaround’ mode. Turnouts will be controlled from panels in the fascia near the turnout location. Why such a step “backward?”… The prior system didn’t really feel like running a layout. It felt much more like running a train sim, in fact.
The actual physical layout started to feel secondary - it was too “remote”… Rather similar to being an engineer or yardmaster there on the scene watching things happen and affecting them, compared to being a CTC controller, sitting in an air-conditioned room watching blinking lights. For me, the step “forward” took much of the fun out of it.
Now, it was very cool. And it was great fun to set it all up, actually get it to work, and do a bit of the “I have made this work!” thing. But once it was set up, the fun ended.
i designed my 4x8 to experiment using computer control with the digitrax loconet system and demo of railroad & company’s software. i hope to use this learning experience for a larger layout in the future. the software is pretty powerful and allows for scheduling, timetables, easy to setup switch and block control panels. also plenty of signaling capability. granted the software is expensive but by using the demo you can really sort things out and make sure it will work for your needs. you might want to download their manual [huge] it will certainly answer alot of questions.
That’s an interesting and honest observation. I’ve done similar things in programming, so I know the feeling.
I’ve toyed with the idea of automating a layout. I operate alone (DCC) and like to put one train out and then dodge it with a local. The idea of having a passenger train out there on a set schedule, stopping at stations, is intriguing. But that’s probably the extent I’d go to.
I’m glad this question was asked. I have been thinking about doing this with my planned Asheville Division layout. Now I have some good information on how to make it happen.
I’m with Mike Tennent on this one though. Automate just enough to have a couple of scheduled trains (passenger and freight) running on a timetable and dodging them with a local freight run by a walkaround cab. Sounds more fun for those between-full-operating-session times than just running one train with no interferance. [:D]
Completely controlling the layout from a computer console is not so appealing. I look at computer screens all day at work. I would rather enjoy my modeling efforts by immersing myself in the scene when I get home than be a dispatcher.
There are virtually no limitations. This is the way I operate my layout for the last 15 years. I run 45 trains on my layout that includes 4 hidden stations and lots of invisible track (in mountains). Check out ZIMO/STP, it is made for this kind of operations in mind but is the only system that lets you select any train(s) with the push of a button on the cab and run them manually or semi automatic without informing the computer first. And it doesn’t have to be a continuous run, it may very well be a point to point operation.
I hope knowledgeable people wll continue to contribute to this topic. I’m a novice planning my second model railroad. Based on my first effort, I have learned that I need automated operation during the holiday seasons when we are entertaining a multitude of grandchildren, great-nephews and nieces, and adults. I can’t be a good host and operator at the same time.
Question for Art or anyone: I read a previous discussion somewhere of the pros and cons of many different systems, and I came away with the impression that ZIMO was a great system, but priced on the high side. But it was not clear to me whether some of the other systems (Digitrax, for example) would be any cheaper by the time I added everything needed.
Art, can you give me a breakdown of the Zimo and/or computer equipment needed to automatically run three trains simultaneously on a loop to loop system, using passing sidings, waiting periods, etc? Thanks.
Also, if anyone could do the same for other DCC systems, I would greatly appreciate it.
Besides the basics (command station, cab and decoders) you’d need MX8 accessory and MX9 track section modules and at least one MX9AZN board. How many MX8 and MX9 you need depends on the number of turnouts, signals and track sections you want to include. One MX8 handles 16 turnouts (any kind of switch machine or solenoid), 32 bulbs/LED’s or mixed. One MX9 controls 16 sections of track, with block occupancy detection, train number recognition, application of the ZIMO signal controlled speed influence and location dependent function control as well as block signals (you can connect signals to either MX8 or MX9 modules). Automation can be achieved in several different ways. Either system autonomous where the command station is used to “record” and “replay” automatic events, module autonomous together with bidirectional communication where the loco decoders send their location to the system and based on that information a train can be sent in specific directions (a decision made by the MX9 module hence the term “module autonomous”) or by a computer. Using a PC would require computer software and a CAN bus interface. At the moment the only software that supports all the ZIMO features is STP, which is connected directly to the CAN bus. ZIMO will soon adapt the computer interface for the existing RS232 port (a software update that the user c
Thanks Art. That is very helpful. I’ll need to read the Zimo site’s equipment descriptions again to completely absorb it, but I think you’ve answered my questions entirely.
One naive question, if you don’t mind - What is meant by the term “CAN bus”? And for what it’s worth, I’m much more computer literate than DCC literate.
CAN = Controller Area Network. The CAN bus is the bus that connects all ZIMO components with each other. It is the fastest bus of all model railroad systems, operating at 125kBit/s and has proven itself in the industry for many automotive and medical applications.
I didn’t even realize this concept has already produced and being used by others. Thanks for the links and much reading information!
About the scale of automation: I never did think of the results of complete automation - turning the layout into a giant train sim, but that is something i hadn’t considered. I was thinking more along the lines of Mike Tennents comment about automating a mainline so i’d have to dodge other trains while switching or running a through freight.
the ZIMO option is very interesting…but as my layout is only a rough track plan in my head…i’m still in that dreaming mode!
Mike - Lots of good info here. Do be aware that all the relevant DCC systems will support computer interface and thus automation. I know for certain that JMRI will work with Lenz, Digitrax and NCE, though I’ve not tried any others like Zimo.
As always, Art provides a lot of info, but bear in mind nevertheless that he’s a dealer rather than a disinterested user. I appreciate and respect the fact that he states his status in his signature and doesn’t try to be “stealthy,” but I’d still hate to see this forum turn into a platform for a bevvy of sellers pitching their product rather than a community of like-minded folks sharing unbiased views.
I do have one specific beef, Art: you didn’t answer the man’s question fully. He asked about cost - a very relevant concern with Zimo - and I, for one, would like to see your answer to that question.
As for the other systems, they’ll all do what you’re talking about and all for about the same cost. My “guesstimate” for a complete setup that will interface to a PC is $350-500 for any of the ‘big 3’… That’s for a non-entry-level base station, throttle and computer interface if required (NCE has one built in). That would NOT include any stationary decoders you may want, wireless or
On this subject, how is the Digitrax for this? Running (3) DB 150 and (1) DCS 100. I have teh JMRI software and was thinking of this for when all the operators are not here. (takes 5 to run this when finished)
Thank You
Mike - Lots of good info here. Do be aware that all the relevant DCC systems will support computer interface and thus automation. I know for certain that JMRI will work with Lenz, Digitrax and NCE, though I’ve not tried any others like Zimo.
As always, Art provides a lot of info, but bear in mind nevertheless that he’s a dealer rather than a disinterested user. I appreciate and respect the fact that he states his status in his signature and doesn’t try to be “stealthy,” but I’d still hate to see this forum turn into a platform for a bevvy of sellers pitching their product rather than a community of like-minded folks sharing unbiased views.
I do have one specific beef, Art: you didn’t answer the man’s question fully. He asked about cost - a very relevant concern with Zimo - and I, for one, would like to see your answer to that question.
As for the other systems, they’ll all do what you’re talking about and all for about the same cost. My “guesstimate” for a complete setup that will interface to a PC is $350-500 for any of the ‘big 3’… That’s for a non-entry-level base station, throttle and computer interface if required (NCE has one built in). That w
I think the issue about cost was my fault. In a previous post in this topic, I commented “But it was not clear to me whether some of the other systems (Digitrax, for example) would be any cheaper by the time I added everything needed.” You answered my questions completely, because I can easily look up Zimo’s prices on your website, and I didn’t expect you to respond about any other company’s products.
Sorry if I caused a problem for anyone here.
For those familiar with other products, I would certainly like to hear from you about the the equipment necessary to accomplish what I’m trying to do.
Art i just want to say that i’ve never considered any of your posts as a sales pitch . i think you share info the same way many others here do , it just happens you’re also a dealer . keep it up .
personally i’d welcome any dealer or manufacturer who wants to join in the discussions here , as long as they don’t give a sales pitch
Mike , you might also want to look at http://www.cti-electronics.com/index.htm . they make a hardware and software solution that’s pretty neat and it can work with the dcc systems that have a computer interface , but also works with dc and with dcc systems that don’t have computer interfaces . CTI requires writing your own program in their language . it’s also pretty easy to build your own block detectors and signals to go with it